Topic: Kozan Tadao rework discussion

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This topic was closed by Yuudai
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 3:52 AM
#16
lunar_cry, The Beautiful Pacifist of True Sight

Contribution: 277 (234 + 43)
Joined: August 29, 2011
I like version 3 the best because I can see it working with one of my current teams.

I've always wanted a AoE piercer.

Wednesday Adams: I'm a homicidal maniac, they look just like everyone else.
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  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 4:42 AM
#17
Mirroga, The Twisted Tactician

Contribution: 2,540 (2,265 + 275)
Joined: March 10, 2010
I'd go for either Version 1 or Version 3. But I'd rather go with Tadao dying using Desperation but having a good base piercing damage there so he will die with a bang.

Version 2 is just too OP.
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 9:00 AM
#18
LosenFlowers, Veteran

Contribution: 1,610 (1,504 + 106)
Joined: February 19, 2011
To be honest, I really dislike all of these. But I would have to go with the 2 one because it makes desperation more of something you'd do in a "desperate" situation.
It's so sad what happened to this game :(
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 9:36 AM
#19
Scimitaro, The Masterful Defender of the Phoenix Queen

Contribution: 505 (443 + 62)
Joined: May 5, 2011
I lile all the versions and why not combitne them all
except the D.R.
Desperation Kills Tadao but gives an AoE piercing
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 10:29 AM
#20
DutchShinobi, The Cheerful Panda of Death

Contribution: 522 (368 + 154)
Joined: February 16, 2010
I was thinking of new ways to improve Tadao's survivability. I think placing a cap on his self-affliction would work.

T1 | Trn 2 | Trn 3 | Trn 4 | Trn 5 | Trn 6 | Trn 7 |
| 5 | 10/15 | 15/30 | 20/50 | 25/75 | RIP | RIP |Self damage this turn/total self damage <-- No cap.
| 5 | 10/15 | 15/30 | 15/45 | 15/60 | 15/75 | 15/90 | Self damage this turn/total self damage <-- Cap of 15 self-affliction per turn.

A cap of 15 gives him the extra turns that I think he needs. His damage will keep stacking ofcourse. It will be like a limiter on his self-affliction. Regardless of which version of Tadao is implemented, I think this idea should be considered.
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 10:45 AM
#21
urkarg, The Lost Warbringer

Contribution: 19 (17 + 2)
Joined: February 16, 2010
I'd prefer version 3. I love the idea of an aoe piercer.
Version 1 is also interesting, it would make him a very fun character, but I don't think it suits his in-game personality. Anw, I look forward to seeing his rework v.v
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 11:09 AM
#22
Prince_Of_Chaos, The Raging Warrior

Contribution: 101 (90 + 11)
Joined: August 7, 2010
urkarg wrote:

I'd prefer version 3. I love the idea of an aoe piercer.
Version 1 is also interesting, it would make him a very fun character, but I don't think it suits his in-game personality. Anw, I look forward to seeing his rework v.v


I agree with you on this one, but I think that piercing damage its just to much. That would make him OP. If you ask me, i would go for version 3 but without piercing damage.
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 12:59 PM
#23
allen_walker, Grandmaster of the Tiger King

Contribution: 25 (25 + 0)
Joined: February 16, 2010
I prefer version 1.
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 1:06 PM
#24
andytheo123, Prisoner

Contribution: 667 (628 + 39)
Joined: January 25, 2011
All are just UP for me.If I had to choose-version 1,but Desperation doesn't kill Tadao.
like a boss
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 1:10 PM
#25
Scimitaro, The Masterful Defender of the Phoenix Queen

Contribution: 505 (443 + 62)
Joined: May 5, 2011
why not make desperacion activate when Tadao dies

smth like this
when Tadao dieas desperation activated and deal 1 AoE meele damage
each cursed dimond charge incresed damage dealt by Desperation by 5 or 10 this u will chose
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 1:55 PM
#26
Demonkings, The Golden Demon

Contribution: 1,488 (1,318 + 170)
Joined: March 11, 2011
Scimitaro wrote:

why not make desperacion activate when Tadao dies

smth like this
when Tadao dieas desperation activated and deal 1 AoE meele damage
each cursed dimond charge incresed damage dealt by Desperation by 5 or 10 this u will chose


You mean something like Diedara's Art is a Bang

Yeah I suggested that earlier in the open balance discussion section a few days ago, I am not sure if anyone were to consider this though...

I'll tell you what I mean

Desperation
Can only be used if Tadao has 50 or less health points. Tadao affects himself with Desperation infinitely,dealing 20 melee damage to all enemies when he dies. Each Cursed Diamond charge increases damage dealt by this skill by 10.

melee, instant/ tactic,instant
1 str, 1 rnd
cool down 0/infinite
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 3:28 PM
#27
Roach, The Masked Samurai of the Red Dawn

Contribution: 1,303 (1,108 + 195)
Joined: February 17, 2010
DutchShinobi wrote:

I was thinking of new ways to improve Tadao's survivability. I think placing a cap on his self-affliction would work.

T1 | Trn 2 | Trn 3 | Trn 4 | Trn 5 | Trn 6 | Trn 7 |
| 5 | 10/15 | 15/30 | 20/50 | 25/75 | RIP | RIP |Self damage this turn/total self damage <-- No cap.
| 5 | 10/15 | 15/30 | 15/45 | 15/60 | 15/75 | 15/90 | Self damage this turn/total self damage <-- Cap of 15 self-affliction per turn.

A cap of 15 gives him the extra turns that I think he needs. His damage will keep stacking ofcourse. It will be like a limiter on his self-affliction. Regardless of which version of Tadao is implemented, I think this idea should be considered.

WHat is with you and wanting to make sure Tadao stays alive for so frikkin long?

Why do you keep insisting someone become a power house without the cost of something high?

It's like, 'Oh yeah, Kurai now ignores all skills when he reaches 30 hp, but it's kay, cause he kills himself in 3 turns anyways.'

'Nightfire now ends with all skills, but it takes two skills to remove it.'

'Devour now makes Nozuchi ignore all effects except for stuns, because that's how you stop this skill, so it's kay.'

That's just not how it works, and it's not how it should work.

If you instead look at 5 affliction damage for every two stacks of Cursed Diamond, the damage becomes much more spread out and gives Tadao enough time to still be a beast without killing himself so quickly.
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 3:37 PM
#28
Mirroga, The Twisted Tactician

Contribution: 2,540 (2,265 + 275)
Joined: March 10, 2010
I'd rather have a combination effect of Version 1 and 3, giving Tadao a piercing AoE but would kill him when he uses it, so that his Desperation move truly lives up to his name.

Although I want the base piercing damage be higher like 20.
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 5:33 PM
#29
Johnny(TM), The Untouchable Veteran

Contribution: 1,142 (856 + 286)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Imagine that, he ignores stuns, he loses health, he deals a heck of a damage, a second Kurai in the line. Wait, let me see this for a moment.

1. You need to get rid of him, because if he stays here for too long, and especially if he has the clan item, he can deal 35, 40, 45 damage for a single specific after 2,3,4 turns. Not good, must get rid of him. But wait.

2. If you hit him, here comes the AoE. That AoE can also do a lot of damage, you usually see it once or twice in a game, but I would be sad to see him losing invulnerability on that skill. The only way I see that skill useful is the 3rd version, but the damage looks small.

As for toggling Cursed Diamond, I don't like the concept with losing the charges. Think about it, you waste 2 random energies to lose 10-15 health and no charges you have.

So if we are going down on this road, I suggest:
- Glass Cutter starts with 20 damage
- Desperation starts with 15-20 non-piercing damage, no instant kill
- If Cursed Diamond is toggled by it's own effect, you shouldn't lose the charges. The idea that it can end by Desperation looks like a good idea
  Posted on February 9, 2012 at 8:07 PM
#30
Crazyjon1, The Demonic Saint

Contribution: 120 (95 + 25)
Joined: October 20, 2010
Version 1 is the best imo.

For one it isn't boring and it makes him more of a flexible character in a way. I would love using another suicidal character (Yuudai, no, you're time is up.) and would create this tendency in matches that would be amazing. Just go with V1.