Topic: Open Balance Discussion

There are no members reading this topic.


This topic was closed by Yuudai
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:06 PM
21 thumbs up
#1
Yukigaaru, The Respected Commander of the Military

Contribution: 1,628 (1,085 + 543)
Joined: January 21, 2010
This is the place to discuss the Balance of War of Ninja.

Rules:
1. This topic is meant to discuss the balance of both character and items, nothing else!
2. Post proper arguments explaining your opinions.
3. Discuss in a mature and respectful way.

Failure to comply with these rules will result in an instant deletion of your post, and a possible ban.

Have fun!
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:11 PM
6 thumbs up
#2
Zeref-, Wolf of the Military

Contribution: 86 (67 + 19)
Joined: January 11, 2011
I claim residence and ownership of this thread :/

First post: Jun. I know there was a lot of stuff about him during the beta, however I can't help but think that in his current form, he is slightly over powered. Why? Spam a 20 damage skill for 4 turns (4 randoms) and you can kill someone with 100 piercing damage. At the extreme low levels, only Yukigaaru has the hp and the means to counter this sort of strategy. Meaning that people with Jun will have an easier time beating those people without Jun at this stage. So, maybe reduce the damage he boost he gains for Blind Spot to 15?

At least that way, he'll take 1 turn longer. Not much, but it is a start. I don't see him as a major problem, but a problem non the less, which is why I suggest so minor a nerf.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:15 PM
4 thumbs up
#3
Suffering, The First Dreamer

Contribution: 8 (2 + 6)
Joined: March 3, 2010
Jun really presents a problem to the lower levels, because he can drop Focus for 15 melee DR (Touken, Yuki, Jun) and then use his one random attack once, at which point someone is PROBABLY at 60 or less health. From the opening of the game, Jun presents a very very large threat to anyone without 100+ health.

I agree with Zeref, maybe a 15 damage stacking, or even a cooldown on Enrage might be necessary here.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:18 PM
4 thumbs up
#4
Zeref-, Wolf of the Military

Contribution: 86 (67 + 19)
Joined: January 11, 2011
Suffering wrote:

Jun really presents a problem to the lower levels, because he can drop Focus for 15 melee DR (Touken, Yuki, Jun) and then use his one random attack once, at which point someone is PROBABLY at 60 or less health. From the opening of the game, Jun presents a very very large threat to anyone without 100+ health.

I agree with Zeref, maybe a 15 damage stacking, or even a cooldown on Enrage might be necessary here.

A cooldown on Enrage kills him :/
It's not his initial damage output that is an issue, it's how after 2/3 turns you can kiss any one of your characters goodbye because it's fairly hard to stop him from stacking Blind Spot charges without using Yuki - Asami - Jinsei/Jun as your team.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:18 PM
3 thumbs up
#5
spiral, The Relaxed Explorer of the Seishin

Contribution: 119 (94 + 25)
Joined: February 21, 2010
Zeref- wrote:

I claim residence and ownership of this thread :/

First post: Jun. I know there was a lot of stuff about him during the beta, however I can't help but think that in his current form, he is slightly over powered. Why? Spam a 20 damage skill for 4 turns (4 randoms) and you can kill someone with 100 piercing damage. At the extreme low levels, only Yukigaaru has the hp and the means to counter this sort of strategy. Meaning that people with Jun will have an easier time beating those people without Jun at this stage. So, maybe reduce the damage he boost he gains for Blind Spot to 15?

At least that way, he'll take 1 turn longer. Not much, but it is a start. I don't see him as a major problem, but a problem non the less, which is why I suggest so minor a nerf.

*cough* a slight correction. Yukigaru is the only one with 100+ HP among the tier one characters but he isn't the only character with 100+ HP. And you can have all chars unlocked even in lvl 1 so "extreme" low lvl doesn't mean much.

The problem with Jun is. there were some characters in beta that could easily shut him down. And since you can switch characters people used to switch to Shotaro (not sure about name) and co. whenever they faced Jun. Leading to him getting boosted to this state. Oh well, once those chars are unlocked once more Jun will go down again... unless they got reworked before the release.

Anyways what I am saying is Jun will probably stay like this as long as Shotaro and some others exist.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:20 PM
2 thumbs up
#6
Suffering, The First Dreamer

Contribution: 8 (2 + 6)
Joined: March 3, 2010
I agree that there are characters that have no problem shutting him down, I'm just saying that when presented with the characters that people begin with, Jun represents an unstoppably high damage output. Losing a character on turn 3 is never something people like having happen, and it's as simple as random, random, Strength random with Jun.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:22 PM
2 thumbs up
#7
Zeref-, Wolf of the Military

Contribution: 86 (67 + 19)
Joined: January 11, 2011
spiral wrote:

Zeref- wrote:

I claim residence and ownership of this thread :/

First post: Jun. I know there was a lot of stuff about him during the beta, however I can't help but think that in his current form, he is slightly over powered. Why? Spam a 20 damage skill for 4 turns (4 randoms) and you can kill someone with 100 piercing damage. At the extreme low levels, only Yukigaaru has the hp and the means to counter this sort of strategy. Meaning that people with Jun will have an easier time beating those people without Jun at this stage. So, maybe reduce the damage he boost he gains for Blind Spot to 15?

At least that way, he'll take 1 turn longer. Not much, but it is a start. I don't see him as a major problem, but a problem non the less, which is why I suggest so minor a nerf.

*cough* a slight correction. Yukigaru is the only one with 100+ HP among the tier one characters but he isn't the only character with 100+ HP. And you can have all chars unlocked even in lvl 1 so "extreme" low lvl doesn't mean much.

The problem with Jun is. there were some characters in beta that could easily shut him down. And since you can switch characters people used to switch to Shotaro (not sure about name) and co. whenever they faced Jun. Leading to him getting boosted to this state. Oh well, once those chars are unlocked once more Jun will go down again... unless they got reworked before the release.

Anyways what I am saying is Jun will probably stay like this as long as Shotaro and some others exist.

Thats why I said "Extreme low levels" :/
Shall I buy you a dictionary? :P

But yeah, Shotaro did make his life hell, however not everyone has Shotaro, and using 1 character to counter another is just ridiculous.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:22 PM
3 thumbs up
#8
Trocadilho, Panda

Contribution: 82 (64 + 18)
Joined: August 8, 2010
Jun really needs a nerf. His enrage can be completely spammed, giving much damage and also preparing him to do even more damage. He needs to be looked at or he is going to be a big problem to the newest players.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:31 PM
2 thumbs up
#9
spiral, The Relaxed Explorer of the Seishin

Contribution: 119 (94 + 25)
Joined: February 21, 2010
Zeref- wrote:

spiral wrote:

Zeref- wrote:

I claim residence and ownership of this thread :/

First post: Jun. I know there was a lot of stuff about him during the beta, however I can't help but think that in his current form, he is slightly over powered. Why? Spam a 20 damage skill for 4 turns (4 randoms) and you can kill someone with 100 piercing damage. At the extreme low levels, only Yukigaaru has the hp and the means to counter this sort of strategy. Meaning that people with Jun will have an easier time beating those people without Jun at this stage. So, maybe reduce the damage he boost he gains for Blind Spot to 15?

At least that way, he'll take 1 turn longer. Not much, but it is a start. I don't see him as a major problem, but a problem non the less, which is why I suggest so minor a nerf.

*cough* a slight correction. Yukigaru is the only one with 100+ HP among the tier one characters but he isn't the only character with 100+ HP. And you can have all chars unlocked even in lvl 1 so "extreme" low lvl doesn't mean much.

The problem with Jun is. there were some characters in beta that could easily shut him down. And since you can switch characters people used to switch to Shotaro (not sure about name) and co. whenever they faced Jun. Leading to him getting boosted to this state. Oh well, once those chars are unlocked once more Jun will go down again... unless they got reworked before the release.

Anyways what I am saying is Jun will probably stay like this as long as Shotaro and some others exist.

Thats why I said "Extreme low levels" :/
Shall I buy you a dictionary? :P

But yeah, Shotaro did make his life hell, however not everyone has Shotaro, and using 1 character to counter another is just ridiculous.

I meant - balance and % only counts in the ladders, not in the missions. Even if a character wins 100% games in the missions, he'll be UP if he loses less than 45% in the ladder. And in the ladder people usually have Shotaro and co. Sorry but that's the cold hard truth.

And one character countering another is bad. But isn't that how numerous characters in the "arenas" are balanced?

BTW I won't mind getting a free dictionary though. =P
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 12:35 PM
2 thumbs up
#10
Zeref-, Wolf of the Military

Contribution: 86 (67 + 19)
Joined: January 11, 2011
spiral wrote:

Zeref- wrote:

spiral wrote:


*cough* a slight correction. Yukigaru is the only one with 100+ HP among the tier one characters but he isn't the only character with 100+ HP. And you can have all chars unlocked even in lvl 1 so "extreme" low lvl doesn't mean much.

The problem with Jun is. there were some characters in beta that could easily shut him down. And since you can switch characters people used to switch to Shotaro (not sure about name) and co. whenever they faced Jun. Leading to him getting boosted to this state. Oh well, once those chars are unlocked once more Jun will go down again... unless they got reworked before the release.

Anyways what I am saying is Jun will probably stay like this as long as Shotaro and some others exist.

Thats why I said "Extreme low levels" :/
Shall I buy you a dictionary? :P

But yeah, Shotaro did make his life hell, however not everyone has Shotaro, and using 1 character to counter another is just ridiculous.

I meant - balance and % only counts in the ladders, not in the missions. Even if a character wins 100% games in the missions, he'll be UP if he loses less than 45% in the ladder. And in the ladder people usually have Shotaro and co. Sorry but that's the cold hard truth.

And one character countering another is bad. But isn't that how numerous characters in the "arenas" are balanced?

BTW I won't mind getting a free dictionary though. =P

Send me your address and B-day. Then wait :P

And yeah, you're right. Still, I get the feeling that people will unlock Jun then head to the ladder to prove how big their virtual balls are.

I'd still like to see a change to Jun, because of how the mission system is structured.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 1:09 PM
2 thumbs up
#11
spiral, The Relaxed Explorer of the Seishin

Contribution: 119 (94 + 25)
Joined: February 21, 2010
Zeref- wrote:

spiral wrote:

Zeref- wrote:


Thats why I said "Extreme low levels" :/
Shall I buy you a dictionary? :P

But yeah, Shotaro did make his life hell, however not everyone has Shotaro, and using 1 character to counter another is just ridiculous.

I meant - balance and % only counts in the ladders, not in the missions. Even if a character wins 100% games in the missions, he'll be UP if he loses less than 45% in the ladder. And in the ladder people usually have Shotaro and co. Sorry but that's the cold hard truth.

And one character countering another is bad. But isn't that how numerous characters in the "arenas" are balanced?

BTW I won't mind getting a free dictionary though. =P

Send me your address and B-day. Then wait :P

And yeah, you're right. Still, I get the feeling that people will unlock Jun then head to the ladder to prove how big their virtual balls are.

I'd still like to see a change to Jun, because of how the mission system is structured.

But I want something a bit more fun for my birthday. :(

I think people would try to unlock all the chars before heading off to ladder. But yeah, they never cease to surprise me.

I wouldn't mind seeing a change on Jun though. But personally I find Yuki even more "unfair" when he is up against teams with 2 melee characters.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 1:17 PM
3 thumbs up
#12
llui, Lackey of the BETA

Contribution: 456 (383 + 73)
Joined: February 16, 2010
Two points:

-Crossboy Shot is a very good skill, and I think that iy was better in the beta (25 damage...). I think that it could have a funny ability:
Jinsei deal 25 ranged damage to one enemy. 5 of this points bypasse invulnerability and cannot be countered.

-Niiro Jun is a ecpic character in 1VS1. Maybe his charges will charge 5 less for every ally that dies, so:
Blind Spot: Jun deals 20 melee piercing damage to one enemy. Each charge increases damage dealt with this skill by 20. For every ally killed, damage increased is reduced by 5 (This no effect previous charges). Removes all Blind Spot charges.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 5:22 PM
3 thumbs up
#13
fullmaxkakashi, The Ambitious Collector of the BETA

Contribution: 22 (18 + 4)
Joined: February 16, 2010
Akira needs a boost her beautiful dawn is just to costly for what it does I suggest just remove one random for it cause it doesn't matter if it drained or not the enemy is still getting 3 back next turn and the damage is to weak so just remove one random of it will be ok for her.
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 6:07 PM
5 thumbs up
#14
FalcoVet101, The Respected Captain of the BETA

Contribution: 193 (128 + 65)
Joined: February 16, 2010
Niiro Jun:
There are 2 problems I see with him.

The first is his defense. For 1 random,it lasts too long,at least 1 turn too long. Not to mention right when it ends,he can pretty much put it back up,making him constantly having a 15 defense wall all game.

Secondly, His damage stacking is also too much. 1 random for 20 is already good, but also increasing another attack by 20 along with that is OP at best.

My suggestions:
A)Make the defense 10
B)Make the defense last 1 turn less
C)Make the damage buff 10-15

Personally,I would go with a combination of both B and C.

Click here to see my WoN achievement suggestion. Thumb,comment,etc!
Want to see my first review of WoN? Then go here!
My latest review on WoN updates: here.Thumb,comment,etc!
My record against the WoN staff
NB Staff- 2
WoN Staff- 0
  Posted on January 11, 2011 at 6:08 PM
2 thumbs up
#15
Dakanoth, The Demonic Samurai

Contribution: 150 (21 + 129)
Joined: April 9, 2010
I'd only like to point out that Shotaro reduces RANGED damage. Jun deals MEELE.

Train ninjas and save the world from evil on NinjaManager.com!