Does anyone actually have a solid argument for why they believe Kame needs a boost? IMO, he's perfectly okay. He shines in some situations, lacks in others -- the way a character is supposed to be. The only fault with him is that he is quite possibly the worst 1 vs 1 character in the game.

Wait....

There's a DUTCHSHINOBI and a DUTCHSHINIGAMI? Furthermore, their avatars are the same.

Shit just got really confusing.

Does anyone actually have a solid argument for why they believe Kame needs a boost? IMO, he's perfectly okay. He shines in some situations, lacks in others -- the way a character is supposed to be. The only fault with him is that he is quite possibly the worst 1 vs 1 character in the game.

Yes i agree. Kame doesn't need a boost. In fact his Genbu is really really annoying.

And he's not the worst character 1 vs 1. The worst is Eien.

Does anyone actually have a solid argument for why they believe Kame needs a boost? IMO, he's perfectly okay. He shines in some situations, lacks in others -- the way a character is supposed to be. The only fault with him is that he is quite possibly the worst 1 vs 1 character in the game.

Wait....

There's a DUTCHSHINOBI and a DUTCHSHINIGAMI? Furthermore, their avatars are the same.

Shit just got really confusing.

He's, to an extent, a lesser Yukigaaru.

It's obvious just from his skill set that he is supposed to be a teammates/tank oriented character.

Unfortunately for Kame, as it stands, his most useful skill is his stun. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not a great thing either. Unless someone has extra energy to pull off his attack, it just goes to waste as a stun (which really isn't THAT big of a waste). Thus making it go back to, 'well, why not just Yukigaaru? His stun is a stun all the same, same cost, but he actually does damage.' In addition to this, Yuki has 10 more health than Kame.

It's hard to word it, but what I'm trying to say, is kind of the same thing I kind of wanted to say with Akira (Why bother with her, when Kurai exists? But since her buff, this no longer applies). Why bother with Kame, who has much higher skill cost than Yuki, with much less outcome and HP, when you can just use Yukigaaru? His costs are much too high to efficiently serve as the tank he is intended to be.

As he stands, his character to me will always be, 'That other Yukigaaru'. Which again, to me is not a bad thing, as Yukigaaru and Kame are my two favorite characters.

(...)How is it even a buff?

Why would I waste red (a specific)
Only to use blue and black? (Specific and random)

When I could use pipe (No cost, 5 affliction damage)
Only to use 1 blue (One specific)

Seriously, why would I switch from pipe to using his attack?

Well as a Kame user, sometimes there are reasons you cannot follow up Thundering Crash and best way is to get a little bonus to doing Genbu easier. Although I could settle for his Genbu doing reduction and costing less too.

The reason why people use him less or loss with him more i what the others said. He's a lesser Yukigaaru and giving him a better support skill rather than a better attack would give him some edges even Yukigaaru doesn't have.

C'mon, just tell me one reason Kame is good to be used in a team. Anti-melee or stun? There are better characters and items just for that. I'd rather have him boosted in Genbu because it's something others cannot replicate.

(...)

Well as a Kame user, sometimes there are reasons you cannot follow up Thundering Crash and best way is to get a little bonus to doing Genbu easier. Although I could settle for his Genbu doing reduction and costing less too.

The reason why people use him less or loss with him more i what the others said. He's a lesser Yukigaaru and giving him a better support skill rather than a better attack would give him some edges even Yukigaaru doesn't have.

C'mon, just tell me one reason Kame is good to be used in a team. Anti-melee or stun? There are better characters and items just for that. I'd rather have him boosted in Genbu because it's something others cannot replicate.

I'm an avid Kame user too, y'know. You're barking up the wrong tree.

I too want to see his Genbu boosted. It's easily one of the best tanky techs in the game. It just happens to cost too much for a character like Kame with nothing to show for it.

(...)I'm an avid Kame user too, y'know. You're barking up the wrong tree.

I too want to see his Genbu boosted. It's easily one of the best tanky techs in the game. It just happens to cost too much for a character like Kame with nothing to show for it.

The last paragraph was not targeted at you. I agree I want his Genbu boosted. He's about the only Seishin in which people would rather not use his Spiritual Beast because it's just too hard to cast.

Gotw should only disable them when the protector (Gotw) are not destroyed.

Yuudai two questions:

1.if you are going to make Gotw disable other damage reductions/ limiters etc, are you going to bring back the old protector order (Pre-Isshou) since basically this will solve both problems even if you were to revert to the old protector order.

2. Are you going to increase the DD of Gotw or add some additional effect? Otherwise it may become Up.

Gotw should only disable them when the protector (Gotw) are not destroyed.

Yuudai two questions:

1.if you are going to make Gotw disable other damage reductions/ limiters etc, are you going to bring back the old protector order (Pre-Isshou) since basically this will solve both problems even if you were to revert to the old protector order.

2. Are you going to increase the DD of Gotw or add some additional effect? Otherwise it may become Up.

I agree. GotW's effects are to be considered aura in terms of its HP still being present and not all the way. Also I want GotW's effects to really ignore any point of additional defense like invulnerability, limiters, and reductions, and additional DDs as long as GotW's DD is present.

Also I think Yuudai clearly made the statement that doing such nerf to GotW will make him add more DD to GotW as balance countermeasures.

As for Question 1, I am curious if the Yuudai is interested in returning that old law since it would give BA more reasons to be used to DD creators.

Gotw should only disable them when the protector (Gotw) are not destroyed.

Yuudai two questions:

1.if you are going to make Gotw disable other damage reductions/ limiters etc, are you going to bring back the old protector order (Pre-Isshou) since basically this will solve both problems even if you were to revert to the old protector order.

2. Are you going to increase the DD of Gotw or add some additional effect? Otherwise it may become Up.

The DR DL ignore on GotW is only to be in effect while GotW is up.

No, I am not bringing back the old system, I feel the current one in far more logical.

Yes, I will increase the DD on GotW, I think it was to 50 hitpoints. I'll edit that into the proposal now.

(...)

The DR DL ignore on GotW is only to be in effect while GotW is up.

No, I am not bringing back the old system, I feel the current one in far more logical.

Yes, I will increase the DD on GotW, I think it was to 50 hitpoints. I'll edit that into the proposal now.

I'm glad to hear you're nerfing the combo, and I'm also glad you refuse to change the protector order (Yes, it is far more logical)...

But, don't you think jumping from 35 hit points to 50 is rather.. a lot? I'm not sure how I like to think of a 50 protector as an item, but I'd be glad to test it if you're willing to hot fix it if it becomes too powerful.

Yes, I will increase the DD on GotW, I think it was to 50 hitpoints.

I remember it having 40 hitpoints in the past, not 50.

(...)
I remember it having 40 hitpoints in the past, not 50.

It didn't ignore DR or DL then though, so I figure 50 should be fair.

About kame:

Genbu, The Black Warrior

Energy required:
Kame grants one teammate a protector of 40 hit points. Until destroyed, melee damage dealt to the target is limited to 20 and ranged damage dealt to the target is limited to 20. This skill cannot be used while active.
Cooldown: 3
--------------

The point is making the skill cheaper, but increasing the cooldown by 1 turn, giving less DD, separating the limitation in two and reducing to 20 each.

example: Tadashi use multi shot and Toraji uses feroious slash in a character affected by genbu

35>20 so 20 damage from multi shot

45>20 so 20 damage from ferocious slash

Genbu is destroyed but no health is lost for a int energy

I don't if it will make him OP or UP, need to think better about it

About kame:

Genbu, The Black Warrior

Energy required:
Kame grants one teammate a protector of 40 hit points. Until destroyed, melee damage dealt to the target is limited to 20 and ranged damage dealt to the target is limited to 20. This skill cannot be used while active.
Cooldown: 3
--------------

The point is making the skill cheaper, but increasing the cooldown by 1 turn, giving less DD, separating the limitation in two and reducing to 20 each.

example: Tadashi use multi shot and Toraji uses feroious slash in a character affected by genbu

35>20 so 20 damage from multi shot

45>20 so 20 damage from ferocious slash

Genbu is destroyed but no health is lost for a int energy

I don't if it will make him OP or UP, need to think better about it

It's not the cheap energy that's OP, it's the cooldown. It's easy to abuse Genbu having only 3 turns of cooldown.

IMO we should change the cost of Genbu to one strength and one int and add the effect of costing one strength less after he uses his stun. It will overall make Genbu more accessible and give him more options especially when use with PoS.