Topic: Balance Update 4.4 Proposal

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This topic was closed by Yuudai
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 11:21 AM
3 thumbs up
#1
Yuudai, Savior

Contribution: 1,233 (813 + 420)
Joined: January 21, 2010
This is the proposal for balance update 4.4.

CHARACTERS

Kozan Tadao:
- Tadao cannot be killed by the damage from Cursed Diamond.


ITEMS

Warbanner of Offence:
- The melee and ranged damage increase is no longer activated by items. The damage increase does however still work on items.

Tanto:
- Deals piercing damage.

Metsubishi:
- Cooldown is increased to 4 turns, up from 3.

Large Medical Package:
- Fully heals the target.

Large Health Potion:
- Fully heals the target.

Let us know what you think!
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 11:27 AM
#2
Chas3_Th3_Dr3am, Dreamer of the Ancestors

Contribution: 2,354 (2,097 + 257)
Joined: January 14, 2011
The Tadao boost will probably be useless. By the 4th turn he’s already half dead and the opposing team can easily spike him so he can die before he can even use Desperation.

Everything looks fine except the Tanto boost. I don’t know if Tanto should be boosted period.

Still, no minor PK nerf?
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  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 11:28 AM
#3
Low, The Manipulative Elite

Contribution: 3,950 (3,650 + 300)
Joined: March 20, 2011
Lovely. Tadao cannot die by Cursed Diamond. Can't say it's original but I love the proposal on that. He's really way too emo =o

Warbanner of Offence:
Isn't that making things a bit drastic? People rely on items/skills combo to use WoO. With this update, there is a chance the usage on WoO will drop drastically.

I don't have much of a problem with other items.
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 11:35 AM
#4
Ryu_No_Zonbi, The Cloaked Warrior of the Military

Contribution: 798 (693 + 105)
Joined: February 18, 2010
love them all however large healing items seem a little much but i guess there's not really much else you can do with them glad to see metsubishi finally getting nerfed.
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  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 11:36 AM
#5
bughead10, The Black Kid of Death

Contribution: 899 (712 + 187)
Joined: May 27, 2010
In my eyes the Tadao update probably won't do that much.

I really like the new Warbanner of Offence since now it can't be spammed with Throw Shuriken and Throw Kunai turn after turn.

Tanto is a little better now and more useful.

I don't see why you nerfed practically the only range counter in the game.

The health item updates are really good.

All in all I like this update except for Mitsubishi a little.
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 11:58 AM
#6
Zadion, The Twisted Child of Death

Contribution: 1,077 (757 + 320)
Joined: February 22, 2010
You guys are SERIOUSLY underestimating the havoc Tadao will be causing in a wall team now that CD won't kill him. :\

I like this update pretty well aside from the Metsubishi nerf. Yeah, that's the only ranged counter in the game, and I really don't want to see it nerfed. Oh well.

WHY IS THERE STILL NO SAIGAI NERF?! I do not care what the stats say; Saigai is seriously OP. The only reason his stats suck is because new players can't use him worth crap.

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  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 12:20 PM
#7
Sand_Spirit, The Trueborn Elite

Contribution: 1,958 (1,725 + 233)
Joined: March 3, 2010
Qoute:

CHARACTERS

Kozan Tadao:
- Tadao cannot be killed by the damage from Cursed Diamond.


I'm not sure if this is going to work, but it'll surely be a nice boost.

Qoute:

ITEMS

Warbanner of Offence:
- The melee and ranged damage increase is no longer activated by items. The damage increase does however still work on items.


I think this update is unneeded. First of all, it not WoO that is OP, I think it's just Jyouzu. I think he should be nerfed instead of WoO. Many players are using the Shogun Military (including me) so not only he's op, but he's also overused.
Qoute:

Tanto:
- Deals piercing damage.


This boost is quite good, and also useful. I'm looking forward to use it with the new effect.
Qoute:

Metsubishi:
- Cooldown is increased to 4 turns, up from 3.


This nerf disappointed me a bit. I'd rather metsubishi has 1 turn stun and 2-turn cooldown.
Qoute:

Large Medical Package:
- Fully heals the target.

Large Health Potion:
- Fully heals the target.


I suggested these boosts a long time ago. I think it's pretty good and useful. People should use these items from now on.
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 12:25 PM
#8
Johnny(TM), The Untouchable Veteran

Contribution: 1,142 (856 + 286)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Yuudai wrote:

This is the proposal for balance update 4.4.

CHARACTERS

Kozan Tadao:
- Tadao cannot be killed by the damage from Cursed Diamond.


ITEMS

Warbanner of Offence:
- The melee and ranged damage increase is no longer activated by items. The damage increase does however still work on items.

Tanto:
- Deals piercing damage.

Metsubishi:
- Cooldown is increased to 4 turns, up from 3.

Large Medical Package:
- Fully heals the target.

Large Health Potion:
- Fully heals the target.

Let us know what you think!


I was thinking about what I don't want to comment, because it's ok by me, but I have to say a lot more than I thought. So here I come:

Tadao: Sounds like a good idea, however my personal problem why I wouldn't use him in the future is the self-destructive Desperation move. Anyway, go with it, it'll defineately help him. Approved.

Warbanner of Offense: This has been discussed in the balance discussion, and I saw nothing wrong with this idea. Approved.

Tanto: Tanto seems like an ok item, but if it needs a boost, this looks like a good one. Approved.

Metsubishi: No no no no no no no. It's been discussed for ages, don't touch Metsubishi, it's a situational but useful item. If we nerf this item, ranged aoe teams will become overpowered. REJECTED

Potions: Don't get me wrong, but all we could change on potions is the value of health they give us back. Potions are always low in percentage, and they'll probably stay there, we'll see that after R3 comes out, so I think this wouldn't change the percentage of the items, only makes it more popular. REJECTED

Let's hope I can stop you guys before you make the unnecesarry changes.
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 12:30 PM
#9
zero_raver, The Twisted Betrayer of the Moon

Contribution: 355 (330 + 25)
Joined: March 3, 2010
Tadao...finally kind of feel to it

Everything in this update seems reasonable, Metsubishi I'm just happy isnt infinite honestly
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 1:53 PM
#10
totozapper, The Insolent Warbringer

Contribution: 759 (695 + 64)
Joined: January 28, 2011
Yuudai wrote:

This is the proposal for balance update 4.4.

CHARACTERS

Kozan Tadao:
- Tadao cannot be killed by the damage from Cursed Diamond.


ITEMS

Warbanner of Offence:
- The melee and ranged damage increase is no longer activated by items. The damage increase does however still work on items.

Tanto:
- Deals piercing damage.

Metsubishi:
- Cooldown is increased to 4 turns, up from 3.

Large Medical Package:
- Fully heals the target.

Large Health Potion:
- Fully heals the target.

Let us know what you think!


Tadao's boost is cool.

If WoO is nerfed, then Yuki wouldn't be used so frequently anymore. Yuki relies heavily on the combo of Hard Right + Kunai to deal more damage, and this would lead to him being nerfed a little as well.

The boost for Tanto isn't really necessary, but still supported.

Well what can I say for Metsubishi? NOOOOOOOO....

Don't have any opinions for the two healing items, as I don't use them much, but it would definitely hep Jikkousu out.
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  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 1:59 PM
#11
crazymonkey3, The Dark Kid of Death

Contribution: 2,379 (2,124 + 255)
Joined: February 21, 2010
I have one question. does tadao gain charges even at 5 hp?
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  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 2:20 PM
#12
llui, Lackey of the BETA

Contribution: 456 (383 + 73)
Joined: February 16, 2010
Now the potions are amaizing ^^-
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 2:23 PM
#13
Nijime, Senior

Contribution: 840 (793 + 47)
Joined: June 13, 2012
Chas3_Th3_Dr3am wrote:

The Tadao boost will probably be useless. By the 4th turn he’s already half dead and the opposing team can easily spike him so he can die before he can even use Desperation.

I agree that it isn't a huge boost, but after playing some test-games we found that he's really much more playable this way. He'll be found fit for wall-teams by experienced players and he'll be less prone to skillqueue-suicides by new players. I have good faith that this is all he needs to find his place in the balanced zone of the win statistics.
Chas3_Th3_Dr3am wrote:

Still, no minor PK nerf?

Painkiller is only around 52%, even lower if I look at games with experienced players only.
Zadion wrote:

WHY IS THERE STILL NO SAIGAI NERF?! I do not care what the stats say; Saigai is seriously OP. The only reason his stats suck is because new players can't use him worth crap.

While the statistics confirm that experienced players have much more success than new players using Saigai, his win percentages are still under 48% even for experienced players. Don't expect a nerf on Saigai any time soon.
Sand_Spirit wrote:



(ITEMS

Warbanner of Offence:
- The melee and ranged damage increase is no longer activated by items. The damage increase does however still work on items.)

I think this update is unneeded. First of all, it not WoO that is OP, I think it's just Jyouzu. I think he should be nerfed instead of WoO. Many players are using the Shogun Military (including me) so not only he's op, but he's also overused.

Actually it's the combination of WoO and Kunai that we're trying to nerf, because Yukigaaru is more of a problem than Jyouzu is. Yukigaaru and Kunai are both very hard to nerf, so this is really the best solution.
Johnny(TM) wrote:

Metsubishi: No no no no no no no. It's been discussed for ages, don't touch Metsubishi, it's a situational but useful item. If we nerf this item, ranged aoe teams will become overpowered. REJECTED

It's the melee teams that have been dominating the ladder of late, not the ranged teams. Ranged teams needed a little love, and Metsubishi has had a >55 win percentage forever.
crazymonkey3 wrote:

I have one question. does tadao gain charges even at 5 hp?

Yes. This will make Tadao an excellent attacker in wall-teams.
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  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 2:28 PM
#14
Johnny(TM), The Untouchable Veteran

Contribution: 1,142 (856 + 286)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Nijime wrote:

It's the melee teams that have been dominating the ladder of late, not the ranged teams. Ranged teams needed a little love, and Metsubishi has had a >55 win percentage forever.

I agree that melee teams are strong, but we have a couple of things to counter them, and that's fine. For the ranged teams, the counter are short-handed, we have Metsubishi and Shoji if I'm correct. But when they go AoE, they are insane, and this is what I want to avoid. Until we don't have more ways to go up against them, let's leave Metsubishi as it is.
  Posted on June 28, 2012 at 2:29 PM
#15
lucaslost, The Lost Wolf of the Winter

Contribution: 1,633 (1,374 + 259)
Joined: March 4, 2010
Wohooo!
Finally a BU I can 100% agree with.
Good job balance squad ^-^
You get a thumbs up from me.

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