Topic: Open Balance Discussion: Reborn

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  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 7:27 AM
#16
Manjji-Puppet, The Manipulative Elite

Contribution: 1,285 (1,084 + 201)
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My suggestion for Kudoku:

Atonement may not be used an an ally it was active on last turn.

Judgement deals 5 damage, plus 10 more for each stack on that enemy, removing all stacks. However, tactic skills do not cause stacks to accumulate. This could be changed to only offensive skills will grant the user stacks, but I feel that might be a little bit overboard.

For now I think we might actually want to leave the base damage at 10 and change it to only giving stacks for melee, ranged, or mental skills. We can go from there.

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  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 6:43 PM
#17
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
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Manjji-Puppet wrote:


For now I think we might actually want to leave the base damage at 10 and change it to only giving stacks for melee, ranged, or mental skills. We can go from there.


^This should be all that's needed for Judgment. Changing the charges to 10 would be overpowered regardless of whether or not it triggers on tactic skills.
  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 6:45 PM
#18
jammal2, The Swift Wolf of the Shishi

Contribution: 158 (149 + 9)
Joined: March 12, 2010
I can understand paying Two Random Energy for Crossbow Shot on level 2 or 3, but for only 20 damage? I would rather it 10 - 15 damage for 1 random energy.
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  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 9:33 PM
2 thumbs up
#19
Zadion, The Twisted Child of Death

Contribution: 1,077 (757 + 320)
Joined: February 22, 2010
I suggest for Kudoku's Judgment to have the base damage increased by 5 and the cost to be increased by a random. 15 damage + 10 damage for each skill with a cost of 1 strength, 1 random. This seems pretty fair to me.

I also want to complain about Akira's Tactical Mastery - or, more specifically, it's LV2 version. There seems to be a huge division on whether Tactical Mastery is leveled up to LV3 or left at LV1. Some players have stated they only really use it with pipes, meaning it only needs to work with tactic skills for them. I disagree with TM only being useful with pipes, but it is a legitimate build and strategy. Others have said they use Tactical Mastery constantly to bring in a lot more energy, using it at any opportunity possible. Also legitimate. No matter how each player uses TM, every player I've spoken to has agreed the level 2 version is useless.

Because TM triggering on ranged skills brings almost no additional utility whatsoever, I would like to suggest for level 2 TM to trigger on all skills, just like the LV3 version, but to give it a cooldown of 2 (or 3?), up from 1.

Increasing the level 1 version to have a cooldown matching the level 2 version will hardly weaken it considering it will most frequently be used with pipes, which have a cooldown of 2 anyway.

That's all for now.

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  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 10:55 PM
#20
Roach, The Masked Samurai of the Red Dawn

Contribution: 1,303 (1,108 + 195)
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Kudoku needs a hotfix, and I mean now. This is an absolutely stupid character that is broken beyond belief and being abused to hell and back.

There should not be a character that is allowed to get stronger by literally, and I mean LITERALLY doing NOTHING. He sits there passively and racks up stacks while using no energy to boot. Only when he is actually needed does he actually use a skill, and guess what, that skill got stronger and stronger because the enemy decided that he needs to actually use skills. I hope you actually realize that an enemy using a skill grants Kudoku DOUBLE CHARGES. WHY?! One for Judgement and one for atonement.

Judgement needs to be drawn into line. Increase the base damage by 5 and ramp the cost up to one red and one random.

Atonement needs various nerfs and fixes. I also think it's bugged, because even though I killed Kudoku, atonement did not disappear, despite being classed as Aura. Basically, make sure Atonement actually goes away when Kudoku is killed.

Atonement should not be allowed to be used if it is already in effect, and it should not be allowed to be used on an ally that was currently being affected by it last turn.

This character is so frikkin stupid.
  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 10:58 PM
#21
Low, The Manipulative Elite

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I dont know if any of you notice this, but at level 1: GSS is basically useless. All it does is make you unkillable in all. For what it does, it should be costing 1 Random for level 1.
  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 11:08 PM
#22
lucaslost, The Lost Wolf of the Winter

Contribution: 1,633 (1,374 + 259)
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Low wrote:

I dont know if any of you notice this, but at level 1: GSS is basically useless. All it does is make you unkillable in all. For what it does, it should be costing 1 Random for level 1.

That would be overpowered.
Not being able to die for who knows how many turns is not useless at all o.o

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  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 11:19 PM
#23
Low, The Manipulative Elite

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lucaslost wrote:


(...)
That would be overpowered.
Not being able to die for who knows how many turns is not useless at all o.o


Its not the unkillable part Im worried about. Its the uselessness of Butning Winds that does not AOE. Because a level up does it all the same, and without a question of being overpowered.
  Posted on August 9, 2013 at 11:29 PM
#24
lucaslost, The Lost Wolf of the Winter

Contribution: 1,633 (1,374 + 259)
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Low wrote:


(...)

Its not the unkillable part Im worried about. Its the uselessness of Butning Winds that does not AOE. Because a level up does it all the same, and without a question of being overpowered.

Guys let's make a lvl 1 immortal gal deal AoE affliction damage without a cooldown.
See how overpowered that is .-.

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  Posted on August 10, 2013 at 2:42 PM
#25
Karab, The Fierce Tiger

Contribution: 3,492 (3,159 + 333)
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My two Cents on Kudoku:

He's not utterly broken, but he does need a hotfix for his lvl 3 passives. Judgment is the worse of the two as Atonment is useless if you just target him first, whereas Judgement ramps up ridiculously quickly.

I've been using him in a stall team with Niwa and Asami and I can Judgment for 90 damage regularly, which is OTT to the extreme.

I think bumping the cost by one random and the base damage by 5 is probably the best initial option.

As for Atonement, I think the skill should just cost a specific energy and/or not be allowed to be used while active.

I've also noticed that Takeko is ridiculously powerful at low levels. I ran into her a couple of times before I had niwa and she's close to unbeatable when she has the pipes because no-one has good aff skills when they aren't supported, so it's really down to luck when you run up against her.
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Okay, who the flower's the smartass

Now THAT's just being a precious flower.

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  Posted on August 10, 2013 at 5:25 PM
#26
elamento12, The Demonic Child of the Firehawk

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I hope im not the only one who noticed how ridiculous the girl with invuns is... She can deal a steady amount of good damage and make her entire team invun to a certain type while still wrecking you im not sure how to nerf her but she needs one.
  Posted on August 10, 2013 at 9:06 PM
#27
Zadion, The Twisted Child of Death

Contribution: 1,077 (757 + 320)
Joined: February 22, 2010
Having played around with and versus three of the new four characters, I have more developed opinions about most of them.

I already suggested above that Kudoku's Judgment should have the cost bumped up a random and the base damage bumped by 5. Since it seems others are agreeing with this, I'll leave it at that. I haven't unlocked him or fought him much yet, so I can't give an opinion on any of his other skills.

(Edit: Atonement charges should not be accumulated if the opponent uses an invisible skill, however. Skills like Demon Vision are hilarious against Kudoku.)

Arashi Miho:

To be honest, I'm not going to listen to people who are using full melee/ranged teams and complaining that Miho is countering them too hard. If you're using full style teams like that, it's your fault. Teams like that have glaring weaknesses that are going to be exposed.

When a player is NOT using full melee/ranged teams, Miho's invulnerability skills feel a lot less powerful. The main nerf these skills need is for them to bypass invulnerability. This will occasionally help you, yes, but not as much as it'll help the opponent. The main thing that makes her invulnerability skills balanced is them making the opponent's team invulnerable as well. However, if one of the opponent's characters has his own invulnerability skill up when you use it, he won't be affected by it, and Miho's team will be free to lash out at full force against the character(s).

As for Windmill Shuriken, some have argued it is OP for its damage. I agree and disagree. I believe that her invulnerability skills are so situationally effective that she's relying on her attack more often than not. My suggestion at the moment is for Windmill Shuriken to deal 5 less damage during Mist and Tornado. This will keep her from wailing on you as effectively during those skills.

Arashi Haruo:

Haruo is SEVERELY unbalanced. He's not nearly as OP in practice as he is on paper, actually, but his stun is broken. The problem behind this is it doesn't matter how long Thunderstorm lasts; even if it doesn't absorb any energy at all, Lightning Strike will be altered the following turn. That's a 3 turn 2 character stun for 2 specifics. If you use smoke bomb with it, you can ensure Haruo doesn't get stunned, AND this helps ensure the opponent will be forced to store energy for Lightning Strike to last its maximum duration. All right, the opponent can go invulnerable as well, but at the very least you forced the opponent to waste his invulnerability skills. (And let's not forget a lot of players won't have the invulnerability skill unlocked on several of their characters.) My suggestion is for Lightning Strike to stun based on the amount of turns remaining on Thunderstorm. I have yet to figure out how this could most successfully be implemented. I'll think on that.

Now, the problem is that Lightning Strike is super OP while his AoE is almost weak. 30 AoE damage per turn (and this assumes Wind Shuriken is fully leveled, which few will opt to fully level it ahead of Thunderstorm) for up to 5 turns sounds like a ton until you add up all the energy, then account for Thunderstorm not granting any kind of antistun or anything. Anybody smart will just throw Siesta on Haruo for awhile so he doesn't get nearly as much (if any) use out of Wind Shuriken. Something needs done to make this skill more usable, but I'm not quite sure what can be done without making Lightning Strike even more OP. I'm currently thinking that its damage should be dropped and its cost dropped to one specific.

Saisei Seika:

Underpowered as hell, that's really all I can say. Chained Halo is heavenly, truly. 15 AoE damage + 10 AoE heal... cripes, she gives the team so much sustain with this skill. The problem is that she can only use it TWICE before Guiding Hand wears off, and it's nothing special at all outside of Guiding Hand.

Guiding Hand is just a terrible prep, really. The heal it grants is weak and its duration is terrible. For starters, Guiding Hand NEEDS to last the FOLLOWING three turns (instead of just "three turns"); this will give Chained Halo three uses and means her Guiding Hand will not be on cooldown when it ends. Additionally, it needs to grant some other kind of benefit. I'm thinking 5 (potentially stacking) DD.

Finally, Seika has no survivability. Guiding Hand's heal is miniscule and Seraphim Touch only works on teammates. I seriously think Seika needs to be able to use Seraphim Touch on herself. However, if Guiding Hand was buffed as I suggested above, this might be too much. In that case, her HP needs increased to 90.

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  Posted on August 11, 2013 at 1:40 PM
#28
LosenFlowers, Veteran

Contribution: 1,610 (1,504 + 106)
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Hikaru wrote:

Does anyone feel Nobuo dealing 25 damage at level 1 is a bit strong?

Definitely. I had problems facing Nobuo when I was starting most of the chars have such little health and defences to deal with such a strong level 1 skill. Best thing, I would think would reduce it to even 20 damage. It would make a fair difference for people starting off.
It's so sad what happened to this game :(
  Posted on August 11, 2013 at 10:07 PM
#29
elamento12, The Demonic Child of the Firehawk

Contribution: 1,860 (1,744 + 116)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Zadion wrote:



Saisei Seika:

Underpowered as hell, that's really all I can say. Chained Halo is heavenly, truly. 15 AoE damage + 10 AoE heal... cripes, she gives the team so much sustain with this skill. The problem is that she can only use it TWICE before Guiding Hand wears off, and it's nothing special at all outside of Guiding Hand.

Guiding Hand is just a terrible prep, really. The heal it grants is weak and its duration is terrible. For starters, Guiding Hand NEEDS to last the FOLLOWING three turns (instead of just "three turns"); this will give Chained Halo three uses and means her Guiding Hand will not be on cooldown when it ends. Additionally, it needs to grant some other kind of benefit. I'm thinking 5 (potentially stacking) DD.

Finally, Seika has no survivability. Guiding Hand's heal is miniscule and Seraphim Touch only works on teammates. I seriously think Seika needs to be able to use Seraphim Touch on herself. However, if Guiding Hand was buffed as I suggested above, this might be too much. In that case, her HP needs increased to 90.


Having used her she does what her job is completely well and that is heal I do agree with the fact guiding hands should give Halo 3 turns to be used instead of 2 but she is perfectly fine.
  Posted on August 12, 2013 at 3:38 AM
#30
lucaslost, The Lost Wolf of the Winter

Contribution: 1,633 (1,374 + 259)
Joined: March 4, 2010
Hi guys. I currently feel lvl 1 Asami is extremely useless (even with fire arrows, a cooldown of 3 in Calm is ridiculous). So here's my Calm rework idea:

Level wrote:

Calm
Asami stuns melee and ranged skills of an enemy for 1 turn.
Cost:
Cd: 2
Class List: Mental, Instant

Level wrote:

Calm
Asami stuns one enemy for 1 turn.
Cost:
Cd: 2
Class List: Mental, Instant

Level wrote:

Calm
Asami stuns one enemy for 1 turn.
Cost:
Cd: 1
Class List: Mental, Instant


By doing this, level 2 and 3 calms remain the same, while boosting her lvl 1 Calm.

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