Topic: An old player's review and suggestions

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  Posted on February 27, 2014 at 12:11 PM
#31
VertuHonagan, The Old Samurai of the Ancients

Contribution: 888 (803 + 85)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Nori wrote:

So once again, we're ignoring the core point of what I have been saying.


I am aware that there are issues, and highlighting the issues that have been mentioned before is clearly getting you nowhere. What we want is for you guys to say 'This is the problem, I think we should do this to fix it'. I am getting tired of repeating this over and over, if you guys can't understand what I'm saying then I'm done responding.

We don't need complaints, we need solutions.


Also, ffs, it was just a map. There are plans to re-integrate it, but it' so low priority right now because it's just a map.


JUST A MAP? Seriously? You all spent so much time, energy, and dedication to creating an awesome storyline, boss battles, and way of unlocking characters and you call it JUST A MAP? I just....Wow. That feel's insulting in so many levels.

The map made unlocking characters actually fun and unique. You guys have pretty much transgressed back to N/A and S/A style of unlocking characters. The only difference is that you are treating Ninja's like Mercenary's, instead of loyal subordinates of their clans. Sure, unlocking characters by map took only a few days of constant grinding, or even a few weeks of playing here and there. but at least it was enjoyable. I created multiple accounts during beta just to replay the map again, because that is how much I enjoyed it. After beta and we had to do map again to unlock all the characters, I then proceeded to play it 3 more times. The map was by far my Favorite part of the game and I absolutely loved unlocking the characters through the map. My suggestion has always been to remove this stupid mercenary contract unlocking and go back to the loyal subordinate way of the Ninja.

I do however like the new chapters, I don't understand why you couldn't start creating this while STILL having the map. After unlocking a character through the map you would unlock that characters chapter. That way we as players can get even more insight into the characters personality and trials from before they joined your team.

I would also like to point out that I WOULD contribute money to this game to unlock new villages with 3 new characters like how the Hebi and Seishin villages were, but I WOULD NOT do it to just unlock a character. I would say $5 for one add on village at one every 2 or 3 months would be very reasonable. I also don't see why that would not be able to be accomplished. As Nori pointed out, he is not the only one writing the stories anymore. So even if he get's writers block you can all help him to create more.

I also want to back Ocnarb up on his suggestiong, allow characters to get back to full stats the same way they used to be. Add the training's to get more diversity from those characters, or just make more characters with those skills that you love and want to see people use. Rather than filling up old characters with new skills that could be used on new characters.
  Posted on February 27, 2014 at 2:24 PM
#32
godperica, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Ancestors

Contribution: 283 (245 + 38)
Joined: March 20, 2010
There are a few ways to make the game more enjoyable, atm as it is, I must say it's good and it's cool to play and so, but there are some counterbacks that "hurt" the game activity, essentially this 2:

-1st, the ladder rank battle is like a broken tab for us to play, no one ever goes there, and no one ever gets a "reputation" for playing it there, This is the bigger counterback, speaking of my in-game perspective and gaming style ofc, many people might agree/disagree about it;
-2nd, the characters are taking way too long to be released. We had exactly 70 days of tsuyu tournaments, meaning that for 2 months and 10 days we had no new character to unlock, this is also a bit troubling, mainly because people like to get more character and news are news, when they come they can make an impact for a week or two atleast, if we had a new character and a story each month, this game would surely pay off so much more.

Note that this is my opinion and look, i'm nobody to judge, but I think that as I said politely things that I don't appreciate much, I also tell a way that it could fix those problems, it's not that easy, but atleast it's not a shot in the dark like many people do. I just hope this doesn't pass unnoticed despite the fact it's a bit too much to read.
Latest Character ->Suttikī Osuushi

  Posted on February 27, 2014 at 2:45 PM
#33
Bankai_San, The Flaming Captain

Contribution: 1,030 (844 + 186)
Joined: November 6, 2010
Okay, I agree and disagree with some points.

First, regarding your comment about characters taking long to be released, godperica. In the beta game, "characters" weren't released; "regions" were. It took really really long, but we got 3 full villages with village items and bosses. The speed is for sure increasing now, with characters being released one after another, and you must understand that creating characters is a slow procedure, because there are lots of things to do, and because the staff must make it as good and balanced as possible for us to enjoy it.
Also, in the Work In Progress thread we can see that the staff knows that we need more updates and are working in lots of new stuff for us, including the newly released character tournament, so in my opinion, nothing to complain regarding updates.

Now, regarding the comparisons between the beta and the RPG version. I was addicted to the game in the beta, but I lost it when this new version was released. Still, I think that many players enjoyed the new version, so I didn't complain much about it, besides the rarity system, which sucks in several levels. I loved the map, but not just for it being "a map", but because it was exciting to play with it. I suggest you to bring the old map back, keep the current boss battles for each mission and make we be able to unlock characters by completing those missions as well. I also agree with Ocnarb regarding characters not being able to reach full potential anymore, but this is my personal opinion, I think that the builds did well to the game and helped a lot include variety and customization the staff wanted. It probably hurts me not to be able to play them at full potential anymore because I had the chance to do so once, but for new players, I think this is quite a cool feature.
  Posted on February 27, 2014 at 10:48 PM
1 thumbs up
#34
Nori, Wolf of the Seishin

Contribution: 2,123 (1,747 + 376)
Joined: November 24, 2010
Yes, it was just a map. You're clearly talking about the original story and features attributed to it, not the map itself. Do not get insulted on my behalf, I know full well how much effort goes into everything here, so when I say something is just a map, it's just a map. As I have mentioned, I have plans to reintroduce the map AS A MAP, not as the original story. It will also include the in game time the missions take place, creating a timeline so you know what happens when and such. That will add back in the story elements of the map, but not the mechanical ones, because as we have discussed the mechanical effects were not viable in the long run. Unlocking characters has to take time, there is no alternative.

And by not the only writer, I mean there's two others, one of whom doesn't really have the time for it, so no, we cannot pump out entire fleshed out villages at release quality every couple of months. These things take time, this is why individual character chapters work better with our team, we all have things that take up our time, working on individual characters suits the teams availability.

Ranked matches do need to be reworked, they need to be worthwhile to play as opposed to AI matches, 100% agree there, will be working on ways to make that work.

Character releases take as long as they take, when you have a whole team working on a character, each person of which has their own idea of what direction the character should go in, it takes time for them to come up with a final product. This is just the way of things, I am not willing to expedite the processes at the cost of quality.


If I missed anything, I'm sure you'll all let me know.

Big thanks to JoeTurtle for this one^^

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  Posted on February 28, 2014 at 12:53 AM
#35
VertuHonagan, The Old Samurai of the Ancients

Contribution: 888 (803 + 85)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Forget it. You clearly don't understand why it was so much more than that. Although I will say this, at least before reborn, there were more than 80 players online when there was an update. Even with the new character tournament I have seen complaints about the time it takes to fill the tournament.

The only reason I have fought so hard is because that is how much I loved this game. But clearly I am just wasting my time expressing myself. I'm done trying to gemyself heard. You may see me in game once every so often. Other than that let me leave you with one last question and I will be done:

In your honest opinion, as a player and not as a creator, do you even enjoy playing the game anymore? And this goes to all the admins. Not just Nori.
  Posted on February 28, 2014 at 1:17 AM
#36
Nori, Wolf of the Seishin

Contribution: 2,123 (1,747 + 376)
Joined: November 24, 2010
I get why the features attached to the map were more than that, it added immersion that has since been removed with the removal of the captain and other features designed to make it feel as though the player is present in the game. I don't understand the outrage over the removal of the map itself. Ignore the features of the old story mode, if that's what you want back then stop referring to them as 'the map'. If it is the physical maps you want, A) I can give them to you. B) What exactly about the maps that you feel would add more to the game AS IT IS NOW. If you claim I don't understand, then it's your job to make me do so. C) As I have stated, I have plans to bring the map back into the game, but it's a surprisingly large amount of work to add two lines of text and a link, plus the maps need to be redrawn to allow for all the new locations that are mentioned by name in the dialogue. That is part of why it's low priority, it is a huge amount of work for a mild aesthetic boost.


As for do I enjoy playing the game, as people know I hardly ever played the game in the first place, but I have played considerably more Reborn than I did of the original. Draft tournaments especially suit me, as I don't have the drive to level every character up to max, just the few I like, and I've always been pretty terrible at this game anyway. Draft tournaments let me get past that, and just have a good time playing with whatever characters I chose against people with no real advantage against me in character terms. So yeah, I enjoy playing the game more now than ever before.

Also, I still don't play the story, it's auto-unlocked for me, so no admin can comment on playing the new story mode proper, because we don't and never have.

Big thanks to JoeTurtle for this one^^

Akatsuki is Recruiting! Post an app to be part of Akatsuki on WoN: Reborn today!

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  Posted on February 28, 2014 at 5:21 AM
#37
Johnny(TM), The Untouchable Veteran

Contribution: 1,142 (856 + 286)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Nori wrote:

I get why the features attached to the map were more than that, it added immersion that has since been removed with the removal of the captain and other features designed to make it feel as though the player is present in the game. I don't understand the outrage over the removal of the map itself. Ignore the features of the old story mode, if that's what you want back then stop referring to them as 'the map'. If it is the physical maps you want, A) I can give them to you. B) What exactly about the maps that you feel would add more to the game AS IT IS NOW. If you claim I don't understand, then it's your job to make me do so. C) As I have stated, I have plans to bring the map back into the game, but it's a surprisingly large amount of work to add two lines of text and a link, plus the maps need to be redrawn to allow for all the new locations that are mentioned by name in the dialogue. That is part of why it's low priority, it is a huge amount of work for a mild aesthetic boost.


As for do I enjoy playing the game, as people know I hardly ever played the game in the first place, but I have played considerably more Reborn than I did of the original. Draft tournaments especially suit me, as I don't have the drive to level every character up to max, just the few I like, and I've always been pretty terrible at this game anyway. Draft tournaments let me get past that, and just have a good time playing with whatever characters I chose against people with no real advantage against me in character terms. So yeah, I enjoy playing the game more now than ever before.

Also, I still don't play the story, it's auto-unlocked for me, so no admin can comment on playing the new story mode proper, because we don't and never have.

Well, with a small modifications maps can be brought back to their old self, but I don't know how it'd look now. What I have on my mind is that when we select a story, it brings up the map of the region, and we can select the characters by clicking on them next to their village. Only problem is we'd lose the chapter numbers.

That's just one idea, the others might have something better. Yeah, I'm just thinging loud now.
  Posted on February 28, 2014 at 5:21 AM
#38
Murasaki_Karasu, The Trueborn Savior of the Ancestors

Contribution: 499 (416 + 83)
Joined: February 17, 2010
It sure would be nice if the players and staff stopped bashing heads so often.

To those stubborn players that want the old system back, it is never going to happen. That's fairly obvious at this point. So what you all need to do is just get over it, and instead try to aid a hand in how to improve the current system instead of whining about how great you think the old one was. Stop beating a dead horse.

I personally love the new system. It may be flawed in certain areas, such as the seemingly random chapters being introduced rather than a fluid story, and the rarity find system as we all know needs work. However, the customization of characters leads to endless strategic options. I consistently see players posting how they want to be able to cap every character. What the hell would the point of the customizing feature be then? Okay, you might have to deal 15 damage instead of 20 with Enrage, or have to wait 1 more turn to use Calm, so what? Form a strategy around that, if you can't then you aren't a very good player are you?

I've witnessed Nori say to players more times than I have fingers and toes to come up with suggestions, but all that is being repeated is "bring the old system back." As it should be obvious, not going to happen; so try coming up with something else for a change.

Additionally, you may argue "well if that's all that's being said shouldn't that mean something?" Well yes and no, because you handful of players aren't the only players, you're simply the ones who are open about their opinions; very open.

What WoN needs is not the old system, it needs minor improvements on the current system and most importantly, more players. The issue of players has nothing to do with the system, but everything to do with marketing and publicity; it's not out there enough. If we take care of that, more players come and we can finally have Ranked Ladders back, which is something I believe to be an absolute necessity for the survival and progression of this game.
  Posted on February 28, 2014 at 5:45 AM
1 thumbs up
#39
ocnarb, The Dark Demon of the Moon

Contribution: 55 (36 + 19)
Joined: February 19, 2010
Independent of new or old system, you need constant updates to keep players interested, not mindless grinding to raise the playtime
  Posted on February 28, 2014 at 9:30 AM
#40
godperica, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Ancestors

Contribution: 283 (245 + 38)
Joined: March 20, 2010
Nori wrote:

Yes, it was just a map. You're clearly talking about the original story and features attributed to it, not the map itself. Do not get insulted on my behalf, I know full well how much effort goes into everything here, so when I say something is just a map, it's just a map. As I have mentioned, I have plans to reintroduce the map AS A MAP, not as the original story. It will also include the in game time the missions take place, creating a timeline so you know what happens when and such. That will add back in the story elements of the map, but not the mechanical ones, because as we have discussed the mechanical effects were not viable in the long run. Unlocking characters has to take time, there is no alternative.

And by not the only writer, I mean there's two others, one of whom doesn't really have the time for it, so no, we cannot pump out entire fleshed out villages at release quality every couple of months. These things take time, this is why individual character chapters work better with our team, we all have things that take up our time, working on individual characters suits the teams availability.

Ranked matches do need to be reworked, they need to be worthwhile to play as opposed to AI matches, 100% agree there, will be working on ways to make that work.

Character releases take as long as they take, when you have a whole team working on a character, each person of which has their own idea of what direction the character should go in, it takes time for them to come up with a final product. This is just the way of things, I am not willing to expedite the processes at the cost of quality.


If I missed anything, I'm sure you'll all let me know.


Now this is a good answer, with this I can refrain from bother with the future, you answered my questions and I know what you mean.

@vertu : can you also remember that during the pre-reborn stuff only 15-30 players were online and at times not even 10 were on? atleast for a while we have 40 players online more or less and later the day we can actually have 100 players online or a bit more, this means that the current system actually draws more than the old, it just needs something that will make it "break the glass".

@murasaki : you have mentioned fingers and toes? What if the fingers you meant were the toes in the 1st place? it counts 10 , not 20 right? kidding

@ocnarb : although I do agree that we need updates more often, as long as we get some, I think no one will really be upset for the time it takes just as long as there are updates.
Latest Character ->Suttikī Osuushi

  Posted on February 28, 2014 at 10:55 AM
1 thumbs up
#41
VertuHonagan, The Old Samurai of the Ancients

Contribution: 888 (803 + 85)
Joined: February 17, 2010
godperica wrote:


(...)

Now this is a good answer, with this I can refrain from bother with the future, you answered my questions and I know what you mean.

@vertu : can you also remember that during the pre-reborn stuff only 15-30 players were online and at times not even 10 were on? atleast for a while we have 40 players online more or less and later the day we can actually have 100 players online or a bit more, this means that the current system actually draws more than the old, it just needs something that will make it "break the glass".

@murasaki : you have mentioned fingers and toes? What if the fingers you meant were the toes in the 1st place? it counts 10 , not 20 right? kidding

@ocnarb : although I do agree that we need updates more often, as long as we get some, I think no one will really be upset for the time it takes just as long as there are updates.


You are also talking about a time when there wasn't a single update in a year.

I feel that reborn has completely ruined my favourite online game. It's lost all of it's unique qualities and is now exactly like naruto arena except we don't know anything about the characters. Makes the game extremely borung for someone like me that plays games for the story. If it's only a boring grind game then I will not be playing very much at all. I will probably play about once every few weeks but that is all for me. I just don't like grind games but I will still pkay fron tine to tine for old times sake
  Posted on February 28, 2014 at 12:01 PM
3 thumbs up
#42
Nori, Wolf of the Seishin

Contribution: 2,123 (1,747 + 376)
Joined: November 24, 2010
Uhh, you realise there is more information about the characters available in the dialogue than at any stage before? I'm referencing past events, characters that aren't released, heck I even reference a major villain at one point in book 1 when we get to it. You get SO MUCH MORE information this way, if you're in it for the story you should be pumped for the new format. Yes, it comes out in pieces, and those pieces oft times are kind of randomly strung together, and that's because we had different people working on different sections and so what was released was what was done. Things should normalise once book 1 is finished, which I am working to get done now.

And again, you want it changed, tell us how, not what, we know what. You want more story in the story? Mate, I can throw in references so obscure to unpublished information that you will go mad reading it. Already we've got references to smaller towns and villages, scenes of epic battles, characters that exist only in dialogue. And I'm working on adding more, hopefully I'll get around to mentioning Yuki's heroic past, Jyouzu's epic brother, and Jinsei's family history through individual stories where they can talk about their place in the world. Instead of with the old story, where personal stories like that get tossed to the side to make room for a character with no voice.

Big thanks to JoeTurtle for this one^^

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