Poll: Should AI Battles Grant Reputation?

31 vote(s) since January 21, 2014 at 12:56 PM

  • Yes (8) (25.81%)
  • Less Than PvP (15) (48.39%)
  • No (8) (25.81%)
 Topic: Upcoming Clan Diplomacy

There are no members reading this topic.


This topic was closed by Yuudai
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 12:56 PM
8 thumbs up
#1
Yukigaaru, The Respected Commander of the Military

Contribution: 1,628 (1,085 + 543)
Joined: January 21, 2010
Clan Diplomacy (the name may still change) is finally ready to be released. The feature will go live during the next hours/day. It is the last big feature before we shift our focus to Marketing, Advertisements and options to buy Characters with real money. In preparation of the release this is FAQ which gives you an idea of what Clan Diplomacy has become. This is also the last time we can take your feedback or suggestions into account.

What is the goal of a Clan Diplomacy?
The goal of Clan Diplomacy is to become the clan with the most Clan Reputation and earn the #1 spot in the ladder. This can be achieved by effective recruitment, that allows new players of War Of Ninja to gather reputation for you, and, by having a military of PvP players to war and claim reputation from competing clans.

How do I earn Reputation for my clan?
Reputation can be earned by stealing via Clan Wars, or directly by winning battles against the AI.
The amount of reputation you gather by playing vs the AI:
Win Quick/Story Game vs Easy AI: +1 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Normal AI: +2 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Hard AI: +3 Clan Reputation

How does a Clan War work?
Clan wars can be started by captains and Leaders of a clan, at any time, against any clan. A Clan War lasts 24 hours. During these 24 hours players of both clans can earn War Points to fuel the war. The Clan which earned the most War Points for that war, wins the war and claims (some) reputation points of the losing clan.

When is the reputation claimed?
After 24 hours a Clan War ends and the war is resolved, meaning the reputation lost or gained is calculated and transferred.

How much reputation is claimed?
The maximum reputation that can be claimed is always 10% of the lowest Clan Reputation (looking at the 2 warring clans only). This prevents a single 24-hour war between two clans from resulting in total destruction, makes a clan position in the ladders more stable, and it demotes larger clans from attacking smaller clans as reputation claimed is relatively small.

By default each War Point the clan which won has more than the clan which lost, will result in 1 reputation being claimed.
However, this is only true if the combined War Points does not exceed 10% of the lowest Clan Reputation. As a war grows larger than the 10%, the difference in percentage is used to determine the amount of reputation claimed. In order to prevent Reputation from losing its value, the winning clan will receive 90% of the amount claimed, in most cases.

To make it more clear, the following example may help. Let's pretend the following:
Clan A has 1500 Clan Reputation just before its war with clan B ends.
Clan B has 1000 Clan Reputation at this time.
Clan A gathered 25 War Points in this war.
Clan B gathered 75 War Points in this war.

As 100 (75 + 25) is not more than 10% of 1000, we can use the simple calculation:
Clan A would lose 50 Reputation (75 - 25)
Clan B would earn 45 Reputation (50 * 0.9)

Another example. Let's pretend the following:
Clan A has 5000 Clan Reputation just before its war with clan B ends.
Clan B has 500 Clan Reputation at this time.
Clan A gathered 100 War Points in this war.
Clan B gathered 75 War Points in this war.

As 175 (100 + 75) is a lot more than 10% of 500, we use the advanced calculation:
Clan B would lose 7 Reputation using the following formula:
((100 / (100 + 75) * 2) - 1) * (500 * 0.1) = 7.14 ~ 7.
Clan A would gain 7 Reputation because:
7 * 0.9 = 6.3 ~ 7 (as this is ALWAYS rounded up).

How do I earn War Points?
War Points are earned when your clan is in war with one or more clans. You can choose to focus on a war by clicking the target icon in the current wars list. By doing so, all your War Points are appointed to the selected war. Players that are in a Trial Rank are treated differently, as they are not seen as Full Clan Members.
The the amount of War Points you gather by playing PvP:

Win against any human player in a non-private battle:
+20 War Points which go to the war you are focusing on, or is spread among all wars if you are not focusing on a war.
Trial members earn 10 points instead.

Win against a Full Clan Member of a clan your clan is in war with in a non-private battle:
+20 BONUS War Points in the war against that opposing clan.
Trial members earn 10 BONUS points instead.

Win a PRIVATE battle against a Full Clan Member of a Clan, which you are in War with AND focusing on:
+60 War Points in the war against that opposing clan.

What happens if I switch focus during a battle?
Switching focus will not change the focus for your ongoing battles. If the war you are focusing on ends during your battle, it will count as if you are not focusing.
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 2:01 PM
#2
DutchShinobi, The Cheerful Panda of Death

Contribution: 522 (368 + 154)
Joined: February 16, 2010
Yukigaaru wrote:

The amount of reputation you gather by playing vs the AI:
Win Quick/Story Game vs Easy AI: +1 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Normal AI: +2 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Hard AI: +3 Clan Reputation

I wouldn't let battles against Easy AI count for anything. Honestly, it's almost impossible to lose against an Easy AI. How about:

Win Quick/Story Game vs Easy AI: +0 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Normal AI: +1 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Hard AI: +3 Clan Reputation

To reward people for challenging themselves by facing the Hard AI.


The War Points system looks okay at first glance.

As for the Reputation gain/loss: I didn't quite understand the advanced formula (I will admit that I couldn't be bothered to get into the math of it too much), but the amounts gained/lost in the examples seem sensible. The only thing that worries me is: would the effort of a clan war ever really pay off? It seems to me that clans that have a lot of members are better off spending their time defeating the AI for quick and easy clan reputation.
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 2:12 PM
#3
Darkamante, The Lost Demon

Contribution: 676 (595 + 81)
Joined: March 7, 2010
Aside from clan wars there is no way of a player loosing reputation for his clan?
Don't mind me, just trying to reach #1 in the achievement ladder...

Zezima's second best player sponsored by Zezima Bank Inc.
Spoiler


I'm not playing this for now...sorry

  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 2:33 PM
#4
Shikate, The Untouchable Shadow of the Ancients

Contribution: 841 (702 + 139)
Joined: January 11, 2011
Yukigaaru wrote:

It is the last big feature before we shift our focus to Marketing, Advertisements and options to buy Characters with real money.


Oh, how nice is it. Anyway, I hope that You won't do some shitty things like making a character avaiable just by buying him or waiting 1 year to get him without using cash.

About clan wars: everything is fine. I cannot see that it's a super ultra epic system, but it's nice :) Good work.
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 3:09 PM
#5
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
Joined: February 11, 2011
DutchShinobi wrote:


(...)
I wouldn't let battles against Easy AI count for anything. Honestly, it's almost impossible to lose against an Easy AI. How about:

Win Quick/Story Game vs Easy AI: +0 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Normal AI: +1 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Hard AI: +3 Clan Reputation

To reward people for challenging themselves by facing the Hard AI.


The War Points system looks okay at first glance.

As for the Reputation gain/loss: I didn't quite understand the advanced formula (I will admit that I couldn't be bothered to get into the math of it too much), but the amounts gained/lost in the examples seem sensible. The only thing that worries me is: would the effort of a clan war ever really pay off? It seems to me that clans that have a lot of members are better off spending their time defeating the AI for quick and easy clan reputation.



agree about easy games, and about that calculation, I think its kinda hard to understand.... :laugh, but I see you're ready to release it within few hours so I don't really know is it a good idea.... maybe wait a bit hear our thoughts and release it....
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 3:45 PM
#6
Ein, The Crystal Fire of the Red Dawn

Contribution: 821 (713 + 108)
Joined: January 26, 2011
Yukigaaru wrote:

It is the last big feature before we shift our focus to Marketing, Advertisements and options to buy Characters with real money.


No one will buy it.
My last.fm profile.
Albums I've been digging recently:
Trophy Scars - Holy Vacants
The Gaslight Anthem - Get Hurt
Joyce Manor - Never Hungover Again

  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 3:48 PM
1 thumbs up
#7
Low, The Manipulative Elite

Contribution: 3,950 (3,650 + 300)
Joined: March 20, 2011
Ein wrote:


(...)

No one will buy it.


Not really, they totally would. I know I would.
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 3:59 PM
#8
SAHEDY, The Independent Shadow of the Kage

Contribution: 87 (73 + 14)
Joined: September 11, 2010
Very nice ideas.
And I hope that the option to unlock characters with real money will unlock only normal characters,accesible for everyone,not special characters,available via payment only.
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 4:12 PM
1 thumbs up
#9
Takeo, The Lost Shadow of the Moon

Contribution: 545 (483 + 62)
Joined: November 24, 2010
DutchShinobi wrote:

I wouldn't let battles against Easy AI count for anything. Honestly, it's almost impossible to lose against an Easy AI. How about:

Win Quick/Story Game vs Easy AI: +0 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Normal AI: +1 Clan Reputation
Win Quick/Story Game vs Hard AI: +3 Clan Reputation

Pretty much this, though I would even reduce the amount from hard AI to 2 points instead.

I'd rather we get focus on more PvP action than sticking to the AI. These players and clans need to be pushed against each other instead of computers.
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 4:12 PM
#10
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
Joined: February 11, 2011
about buyable characters,yeah we talked about it, but I think everything that involves a real money always takes some fun too, because that would make people who can't afford to buy them kinda discriminated.... I think same characters should be able to be unlocked by tourneys....

also agree with takeo above on everything....
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 4:44 PM
#11
Low, The Manipulative Elite

Contribution: 3,950 (3,650 + 300)
Joined: March 20, 2011
edwinas5524 wrote:

about buyable characters,yeah we talked about it, but I think everything that involves a real money always takes some fun too, because that would make people who can't afford to buy them kinda discriminated.... I think same characters should be able to be unlocked by tourneys....

also agree with takeo above on everything....


Discrimination is not the right word here. I believe the characters are open to unlocking. Paying to get them is just easier. It may be a kind of deal like that.

I have always been supportive of special tournament characters.
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 5:13 PM
#12
VvvAlucardvvV, The Respected Samurai of the BETA

Contribution: 39 (35 + 4)
Joined: April 5, 2010
Shikate wrote:


I hope that You won't do some shitty things like making a character avaiable just by buying him or waiting 1 year to get him without using cash.

That's my main concern.

I'm really worried about it...

VvvV
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 5:22 PM
1 thumbs up
#13
godperica, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Ancestors

Contribution: 283 (245 + 38)
Joined: March 20, 2010
I guess everyone touched the points I was gonna talk about.

Firstly, i'd like to say i'm a war of ninja veteran, i played this game since the begin, I may have some "hiatus" moments, but I always come back and I've never been more glad with the game than since august 2013, because things look different and the game is finally getting noticed.
Secondly, I am quite happy to see that clan features are getting released, that means soon we might get more chapters, characters, or even just more focus on fixing chat ( which is giving players a lot of troubles as of late).
Thirdly and finally, the only arguable thing here is as some people said, earning clan reputation. As somebody suggested, Easy AI shouldn't Obviously be counted for those, and the formula 0-1-2 ( from easy - medium - hard ,respectively) is what seems the most fair offer for everyone.

On a side note, I agree that real life money could be introduced to the game in order for benefits, but that should be done in a fair way, not like characters that can only be unlocked with cash, or stuff like that,but what concerns me the most will be the payment methods. The special tournaments idea is also a decent one, it makes it fair for people who can't afford to spend the money, whether it's life status, age or even just not be too skeptical to spend money on the internet to actually try hard to get them.
Latest Character ->Suttikī Osuushi

  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 8:08 PM
#14
JoeTurtle, The Lost Explorer of True Sight

Contribution: 404 (300 + 104)
Joined: March 27, 2010
First off, this looks awesome. It cleverly integrates a PVP aspect with clan rankings, something that was missing from the previous Clan Diplomacy suggestion. I am looking forward to how this all pans out.

My only concern is the numbers. As some have stated, they feel that the reward reputation you get from attack other clans doesn't seem significant enough compared to "mining" reputation for it to be a viable option to raise you clan to the top.

I am also concerned about the "As a war grows larger than the 10%, the difference in percentage is used to determine the amount of reputation claimed" part of the suggestion. I feel like 10% is too small a number.

I myself could easily gain over 40 war points in a 24 hour period (from my understanding, that is only 2 wins against a human player). And say around 4 other people in my clan do the same. This in itself is 200 war points for just one clan. If the other clan produces say half of that, there is a total of 300 war points between the clans. Meaning, in order for the first equation to be used, both of our clans needs to have a reputation of higher than 3000. From the looks of the numbers you have used, 3000 is slightly higher than the average.

Personally, I feel 15-20% is a better margin in which the first equation should be used. In my scenario, that would lower the reputation requirement to use the first formula from 3000 to 1500-2000 range, something that seems much more obtainable with the numbers you have given.

But I guess you could always change the variables down the line to adjust the balance between clans.
  Posted on January 21, 2014 at 9:16 PM
#15
Murasaki_Karasu, The Trueborn Savior of the Ancestors

Contribution: 499 (416 + 83)
Joined: February 17, 2010
I'm ecstatic about the new character purchasing feature. I shall definitely unlock the characters I haven't thus far via this method.

As for Clan Diplomacy, this is a stark improvement from the last proposal. I've stated before that it doesn't fully interest me, but I feel those that it does interest will receive great enjoyment from it.