Poll: Would you like to remove AI system?

26 vote(s) since July 16, 2014 at 7:19 AM

  • YES (7) (26.92%)
  • NO (18) (69.23%)
  • DON'T CARE (1) (3.85%)
 Topic: Ranked...

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  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 7:19 AM
3 thumbs up
#1
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
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just stating the fact that AI battles took all competition away to the point where you find max 4 players at ranked in 24 hours... and what is most disapointing thing not only there is no competition, but this will be the first season where people with less than 75% are at top 10 at the end of the season, not only that people at top 3 has just over 70% (never been before...) last seasons we had 10 players with highest streaks and last ones was at least more than +25, now highest streak so far is +27... I'm just sad where is going all pvp (because this is pvp game) and how noobs easily can win seasons because there is no competition...
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 12:32 PM
1 thumbs up
#2
ahmed780, The Manipulative Diva of the Clouded Dreams

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I Tried to Play a ranked game once, kept searching for 5 minutes straight and found no one so I Stopped and kept playing against AI. So In other words, If the PvP is to be revived there has to be a big amount of players who take the lead and encourage other people to join them so that other people may start playing PvP again. IDK if that made sense but I Hope it did.
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 3:11 PM
1 thumbs up
#3
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
Joined: January 31, 2011
Ahmed is right, and that's the exact reason why it's going to be so difficult to resolve this problem.

In my honest opinion, I can't really see an obvious solution to this. We could remove the AI, but that would put us back to square one and make it difficult for new players to get adjusted to the game when they're constantly matched against stronger players.

Another option is allowing AI only up until a certain player level, and past that level you MUST play against humans in order to get gold, exp, recruit characters, etc. What do you guys think of this approach? It allows AI for players who actually need it (players with low levels) and it forces higher leveled players to actually stop fighting AI and fight with some real people. If for whatever reason they WANT to play with AI, they have the option to do so but without rewards.

This game's playerbase is definitely large enough that an individual should not have to search for 30 minutes to find ONE human opponent. And the playerbase is still growing everyday.

tl;dr: Nobody wants to play PvP because nobody is playing PvP. What is the solution to this? The only possible one I can think of is to practically force people to play PvP.

NOTE: PvP doesn't necessarily mean always ranked. It is possible to play Quick Games with humans, so if you want to test teams or don't want serious gameplay you could always go there.
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 3:16 PM
#4
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
Joined: February 11, 2011
Nestec wrote:

Ahmed is right, and that's the exact reason why it's going to be so difficult to resolve this problem.

In my honest opinion, I can't really see an obvious solution to this. We could remove the AI, but that would put us back to square one and make it difficult for new players to get adjusted to the game when they're constantly matched against stronger players.

Another option is allowing AI only up until a certain player level, and past that level you MUST play against humans in order to get gold, exp, recruit characters, etc. What do you guys think of this approach? It allows AI for players who actually need it (players with low levels) and it forces higher leveled players to actually stop fighting AI and fight with some real people. If for whatever reason they WANT to play with AI, they have the option to do so but without rewards.

This game's playerbase is definitely large enough that an individual should not have to search for 30 minutes to find ONE human opponent. And the playerbase is still growing everyday.

tl;dr: Nobody wants to play PvP because nobody is playing PvP. What is the solution to this? The only possible one I can think of is to practically force people to play PvP.

NOTE: PvP doesn't necessarily mean always ranked. It is possible to play Quick Games with humans, so if you want to test teams or don't want serious gameplay you could always go there.



don't tell me about how hard it would be for new players cuz we all were new and survived somehow... it was some challenge to win agaist pro's... also look at other arenas I hope they would make AI battles to make it easier to unlock all characters and adjust.... but I do like your idea I think that might solve this problem, because if you reached that level vs AI you're ready to face human opp...
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 4:08 PM
#5
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
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edwinas5524 wrote:


(...)


don't tell me about how hard it would be for new players cuz we all were new and survived somehow... it was some challenge to win agaist pro's... also look at other arenas I hope they would make AI battles to make it easier to unlock all characters and adjust.... but I do like your idea I think that might solve this problem, because if you reached that level vs AI you're ready to face human opp...


Yeah I understand what you mean, but I think the landscape of the game is totally different now than it was then. Back then, maybe like 20% of the game was nearly-unbeatable veterans, while the other 80% was new players. Because of that ratio, we could survive without AI because we were constantly running into other new players and we could grow/improve together.

But now that's not possible because the game is about 60% veterans and 40% new players. New players run into veterans much more often than other new players due to this ratio, and the AI battles exaggerate the ratio even MORE because the bulk of those newcomers aren't even searching in PvP. So it's more like 85% veterans and 15% new players.

(EDIT: OMFG edwinas i just screwed up my last move on our game, you lucked out this time. My chat isn't working, which is why I'm saying something to you here.)
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 4:17 PM
#6
ahmed780, The Manipulative Diva of the Clouded Dreams

Contribution: 270 (243 + 27)
Joined: February 14, 2011
Nestec wrote:

Ahmed is right, and that's the exact reason why it's going to be so difficult to resolve this problem.

In my honest opinion, I can't really see an obvious solution to this. We could remove the AI, but that would put us back to square one and make it difficult for new players to get adjusted to the game when they're constantly matched against stronger players.

Another option is allowing AI only up until a certain player level, and past that level you MUST play against humans in order to get gold, exp, recruit characters, etc. What do you guys think of this approach? It allows AI for players who actually need it (players with low levels) and it forces higher leveled players to actually stop fighting AI and fight with some real people. If for whatever reason they WANT to play with AI, they have the option to do so but without rewards.

This game's playerbase is definitely large enough that an individual should not have to search for 30 minutes to find ONE human opponent. And the playerbase is still growing everyday.

tl;dr: Nobody wants to play PvP because nobody is playing PvP. What is the solution to this? The only possible one I can think of is to practically force people to play PvP.

NOTE: PvP doesn't necessarily mean always ranked. It is possible to play Quick Games with humans, so if you want to test teams or don't want serious gameplay you could always go there.


I Really Like that Idea and I think the level should be 50, once you reach that, you no longer get gold or exp from playing Against AI, you'd then have to play against human even if just quick games.

I Really Hope the Admins Get to see this, maybe if more players like this idea as well then they might implement it?
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 4:39 PM
#7
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
Joined: February 11, 2011
ahmed780 wrote:


(...)

I Really Like that Idea and I think the level should be 50, once you reach that, you no longer get gold or exp from playing Against AI, you'd then have to play against human even if just quick games.

I Really Hope the Admins Get to see this, maybe if more players like this idea as well then they might implement it?



I don't see why it shouldn't be implented if we wanna revive pvp....
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 4:52 PM
1 thumbs up
#8
Murasaki_Karasu, The Trueborn Savior of the Ancestors

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You would lose more players than you would gain if it was only possible to receive Gold and EXP via PvP. You're hardcore players, but you're forgetting about the casual players that make up a large portion of the player base. You may not care about them, but the staff does, and the game depends on them just as much as it depends on you.

However, I do agree that something needs to be implemented that will entice more players to play against human opponents, namely ranked matches. Unfortunately this isn't the correct solution.
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 4:52 PM
1 thumbs up
#9
Forgotten-ninja, The Demonic Demon of the Demon's Flower

Contribution: 357 (320 + 37)
Joined: February 19, 2010
Can I just say I don't like the idea of not getting gold from AI at level 50? What if that doesn't really help? What if that just gets people to up and leave because they can't find any Ranked battles, or preferred fighting the AI because they could play whenever they wanted. Being level 50 doesn't mean a whole lot with how much gold you need to buy every character and item.

I can tell you I'd probably just quit because I just do not care about the ladder. I'm sorry I just don't find meaning in it's current state, and taking away what I currently enjoy about this game isn't changing my mind.

If you want people to ladder, there needs to better rewards, not forcing it on people. Make it so low rarity characters don't show up when you win against a human maybe? A match against a human opponent can last a long time when compared to the AI, especially if the losing player is just stalling to be annoying. If it isn't an instant surrender, a win against a human should be worth at least beating 3-4 AI matches on Normal if you ask me.

Also, we need a bigger playerbase before we do anything related to ranked/human matches. Ranked isn't fun if you're only fighting the same 3 people. I'm sorry [insert staff member who dislikes this part of the post] but word of mouth isn't going to cut it and the admins need to stop changing everything long enough to focus adding more content and attracting players.
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 5:03 PM
#10
Manjji-Puppet, The Manipulative Elite

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I myself am not a fan of no longer being able to get gold or experience from AI battles after a certain point. As had been mentioned, more casual players might not desire to play PvP, and forcing them to do so doesn't seem to be the best fix.

I believe that a possible way to increase PvP activity is to have more perks/rewards for playing and winning against other players. One issue some people have is the difficulty in finding certain high-rarity characters in order to contract them. What if there was an option to select a certain character before a PvP match, and winning would grant a bonus %age for finding that character. I'm not sure about whether or not this could actually be done, but it is an idea.

A more straight-forward path would be to simply jack up either the gold or experience gained from PvP matches.

Something that I wouldn't prefer, but might be an option is to decrease gold a/o experience rewards for playing against AI once Level 50 is reached. I'm not a really big fan of this, but in my eyes it is better than removing the rewards altogether.

For You Zad.
My Skin Showcase
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 5:24 PM
#11
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
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Murasaki_Karasu wrote:

You would lose more players than you would gain if it was only possible to receive Gold and EXP via PvP. You're hardcore players, but you're forgetting about the casual players that make up a large portion of the player base. You may not care about them, but the staff does, and the game depends on them just as much as it depends on you.

However, I do agree that something needs to be implemented that will entice more players to play against human opponents, namely ranked matches. Unfortunately this isn't the correct solution.



casual players? this is pvp game and you should go pvp vs human... also I see forgotten didn't get it, you wouldn't need to play ranked, you could play quick games... the point is again, rpg system because in pvp we don't need xp and level up characters, but for gold I think yeah you should remove AI battles in quick, in that case people would acually play sorry to level up characters and that would solve this problem too... don't tell me about how people would leave because people are leaving because there is no competition at this point so ones would leave others may come...
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 5:25 PM
#12
Nestec, Dreamer

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I agree with you guys about removing AI rewards being hazardous and I'll admit that the idea is pretty flawed, but honestly what idea isn't flawed in some way at this point? Even the current set-up is super flawed! As you guys have pointed, it's all about somehow finding the perfect balance between Casual and Competitive.

All I'm going to say is that pre-RPG had no AI, yet it was somehow able to thrive for both casual and competitive players. This was probably because players could so easily be matched against others at their skill level, but we will never be able to get new players more interested in PvP if we encourage them to continue playing AI forever.

EDIT: Edwinas' point about Quick Battles is spot-on as well. If you don't want to play against someone who is trying to kick your ass, then don't play Ranked. Play Quick Battle against another human who is trying to play casually. (Of course this would mean we'd have to split up the search pools for Quick and Ranked...but if almost everyone is searching PvP, the reduced searching-player count would be insignificant.)
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 5:53 PM
#13
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
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Nestec wrote:

I agree with you guys about removing AI rewards being hazardous and I'll admit that the idea is pretty flawed, but honestly what idea isn't flawed in some way at this point? Even the current set-up is super flawed! As you guys have pointed, it's all about somehow finding the perfect balance between Casual and Competitive.

All I'm going to say is that pre-RPG had no AI, yet it was somehow able to thrive for both casual and competitive players. This was probably because players could so easily be matched against others at their skill level, but we will never be able to get new players more interested in PvP if we encourage them to continue playing AI forever.

EDIT: Edwinas' point about Quick Battles is spot-on as well. If you don't want to play against someone who is trying to kick your ass, then don't play Ranked. Play Quick Battle against another human who is trying to play casually. (Of course this would mean we'd have to split up the search pools for Quick and Ranked...but if almost everyone is searching PvP, the reduced searching-player count would be insignificant.)



separating quick battles and ranked would destroy raked completely... I really like how people are talking like we always had AI battles, like nes said before we found balance between casual and competitive... what about other arenas? where you're lvl 5 and find players with all characters ... you have to deal with it, if you wanna easy wins or easy play go play little ponie... (its ot to you nes )
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 7:09 PM
#14
Nestec, Dreamer

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Oh well I was saying the separation between Quick and Ranked should only happen IF we also find a way to pour more players into PvP. You're right, as it is now that would just make it even worse.
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 9:35 PM
#15
Forgotten-ninja, The Demonic Demon of the Demon's Flower

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I just don't see how you think forcing everyone to play against humans at level 50 will make people suddenly interested in PVP.

Why are people grinding against AI? Maybe they find it more productive gold wise? Maybe they don't want the trouble of looking for a human opponent? There's a lot of things, but the plain of it is, most people don't want to PVP. Removing the AI once you get to a certain point is far more likely to get people not interested in PVP to just up and leave.

I find making rewards for playing human opponent's more worthwhile would be a better option with how small the current playerbase is. No need to risk shrinking it even further.