Poll: Would you like to remove AI system?

26 vote(s) since July 16, 2014 at 7:19 AM

  • YES (7) (26.92%)
  • NO (18) (69.23%)
  • DON'T CARE (1) (3.85%)
 Topic: Ranked...

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  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 11:39 PM
#16
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
Joined: January 31, 2011
That's a good question...why are people grinding against AI?

If it is because it is more productive gold-wise, then the solution could be either to ramp up the rewards on PvP or to reduce the rewards from AI. Both options directly incentivize players to play PvP. If everyone is sufficiently urged to play PvP (whether it's Ranked or Quick Battle), then the issue of being unable to find an opponent is dramatically reduced. And then before you know it, PvP can thrive in the same way it did before the RPG system.

Also, I don't think I ever suggested removing AI entirely. I said removing the rewards. So if you still want to play with AI to just experiment, have some fun, or level up your characters, then by all means go ahead! But if you want gold, rarity, or recruiting new ninja, then you've gotta play against another human.

I know this might sound like we're limiting what the players can do, but think about it this way: there are TONS of players grinding right now. They prefer the AI because it yields the fastest rewards. If PvP offers more rewards, players will go there, and thus find more and more players.

Ultimately, I just can't get behind a game that encourages players to not interact with each other, and that's the way it is right now.
  Posted on July 16, 2014 at 11:46 PM
#17
Forgotten-ninja, The Demonic Demon of the Demon's Flower

Contribution: 357 (320 + 37)
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Well, that's just it. Gold really is the only reward worth getting out of the AI in the long run, since that's how you get new content. Removing that more or less makes all that RPG stuff they cooked up worthless.

Exp? What's the point if everyone's turned into their PVP version when you go against humans. Story mode? Most people see it as a novelty now. Testing teams? Same thing, since even on normal difficulty the AI has some...questionable decision making.
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 12:35 AM
#18
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
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Forgotten-ninja wrote:

Well, that's just it. Gold really is the only reward worth getting out of the AI in the long run, since that's how you get new content. Removing that more or less makes all that RPG stuff they cooked up worthless.


Well not necessarily, I don't think you're giving the RPG system enough credit. Another major thing it did was allow players to gradually learn the mechanics of the game and understand the way characters work (honestly, I didn't think this was necessary, but the admins saw it as a major need). Removing rewards from AI would not make the RPG system worthless, because players could still use it to have a slow, steady experience of the game.
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 7:09 AM
1 thumbs up
#19
naruto-leaf, Swordsman

Contribution: 2,005 (1,806 + 199)
Joined: January 28, 2011
Referring to the first post the reason why top 3 are at 70% is because of all these new updates. This affects greatly swaps and teams and a lot of bugs such as no prison chains.

One thing that would encourage people to play vs others would be getting back streak ladders. This way you can achieve something and lose nothing. You can also test teams, get gold and exp without losing anything.

Most people are discouraged to play PvP because they don't gain anything from it. The game is also bugged up and a lot of people wait on it to be fixed.
Removed for ???
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 9:02 AM
#20
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
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naruto-leaf wrote:

Referring to the first post the reason why top 3 are at 70% is because of all these new updates. This affects greatly swaps and teams and a lot of bugs such as no prison chains.

One thing that would encourage people to play vs others would be getting back streak ladders. This way you can achieve something and lose nothing. You can also test teams, get gold and exp without losing anything.

Most people are discouraged to play PvP because they don't gain anything from it. The game is also bugged up and a lot of people wait on it to be fixed.



tell me about it.... tell me at what point from the start of this season any player from top 5 had 80% or 75%... buggs like prison chain is just few weeks....

about what forgotten saying how people would leave because they don't want to play against humans? so what do you expect, you're coming to play pvp game and don't have actual pvp? also we were forced to play vs human not only in missions (and it was much more fun) but after you finish story you have to grind ladders to get gold....in every arena you have to play vs human opp, just WoN made it for kids 12 years old who don't really get what they're doing....also yeah if you wanna test teams you couldn't test it vs AI either way because even hard AI is too stupid, try using BoM + SB and watch how they skip turn, if you wanna testing yeah its about time to bring back SL and fix those damnn achievements.... I think in quick you could get xp (because vs human you can't), but also you could get like 2- gold for easy, 4- medium, hard -6, vs human- 12...
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 3:04 PM
1 thumbs up
#21
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
Joined: January 31, 2011
That's another thing, it would be nice to have Achievements reactivated again. Personally, I used to spend a lot of time laddering just trying to get various +15 streaks and 100 wins -- but right now all of that isn't even being recorded. Do you guys know why that is?

Also, I'm really curious about what the admin's next steps are, what they are currently planning to work on next.
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:16 PM
#22
naruto-leaf, Swordsman

Contribution: 2,005 (1,806 + 199)
Joined: January 28, 2011
I can say that I lost so many times because of a missed swap just because it's so hard to choose a swap.

Possibly achievements were taken down because of how they would affect the new system and rarity. There is nothing to motivate people to play when battles don't count.
Removed for ???
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:54 PM
#23
ahmed780, The Manipulative Diva of the Clouded Dreams

Contribution: 270 (243 + 27)
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Nestec wrote:

That's another thing, it would be nice to have Achievements reactivated again. Personally, I used to spend a lot of time laddering just trying to get various +15 streaks and 100 wins -- but right now all of that isn't even being recorded. Do you guys know why that is?

Also, I'm really curious about what the admin's next steps are, what they are currently planning to work on next.


So Ranked games don't count for Character streaks now? That'd be a bummer, I was trying to play ranked games in the first place to get those done.
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 5:55 PM
#24
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
Joined: January 31, 2011
Well the odd thing is that Achievements haven't all been disabled, just the ones related to streaking. We've still been getting achievement points for playing games with the recently released characters.


@ Ahmed, yeah they don't count anymore, at least until the admins enable them again.
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 6:36 PM
1 thumbs up
#25
Manjji-Puppet, The Manipulative Elite

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Joined: February 19, 2010
I would just like to point out why I don't agree with you Ed.

You are saying that players who currently are playing primarily (if not solely) AI matches should be essentially forced (via whatever method is adopted) into playing PvP, because it's a PvP game. As for why, it's to spark more activity in the PvP so you and others can have opponents to play. Seems fair, right?

Except the people playing against the AI are perfectly comfortable with playing against the AI. If they wanted, they would play PvP. By asking that rewards be taken away from winning AI battles, you are basically telling players who enjoy AI battles, 'tough luck, no gold for you.' I would dare say that's a bit selfish on your part, demanding others conform to what you want, ignoring the fact that they may be content with how they are playing the game now.

I know I did offer a few solutions, as I don't believe PvP should be abandoned altogether, but I also think that it's important to realize that a full out PvP game, as War of Ninja was in the past might be what you wish the game was, but not everyone feels the same way. There should be balance between the two, not a rift that forces happy players to shift into something they might not enjoy as much.

For You Zad.
My Skin Showcase
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 6:49 PM
#26
edwinas5524, The Untouchable Swordsman of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,382 (2,161 + 221)
Joined: February 11, 2011
Manjji-Puppet wrote:

I would just like to point out why I don't agree with you Ed.

You are saying that players who currently are playing primarily (if not solely) AI matches should be essentially forced (via whatever method is adopted) into playing PvP, because it's a PvP game. As for why, it's to spark more activity in the PvP so you and others can have opponents to play. Seems fair, right?

Except the people playing against the AI are perfectly comfortable with playing against the AI. If they wanted, they would play PvP. By asking that rewards be taken away from winning AI battles, you are basically telling players who enjoy AI battles, 'tough luck, no gold for you.' I would dare say that's a bit selfish on your part, demanding others conform to what you want, ignoring the fact that they may be content with how they are playing the game now.

I know I did offer a few solutions, as I don't believe PvP should be abandoned altogether, but I also think that it's important to realize that a full out PvP game, as War of Ninja was in the past might be what you wish the game was, but not everyone feels the same way. There should be balance between the two, not a rift that forces happy players to shift into something they might not enjoy as much.



what I'm saying, there is no point to unlock characters if you're not planing to compete vs human opp.... I really hate it cuz you can't be a good player if you're affraid to play vs other true opponent, AI battles don't even teach you any strategy, because even at hard its too easy... and like I said in any other arena there is no exceptions to easier wins or games, just WoN and it takes all the fun away because then you win against good players its much more fun than to beat mindless AI over and over again.... somehow WoN survived 4 seasons with huge activity and no one cryed about how hard it is, and now with no activity its somehow too hard? this update should bring back activity where it was first 3 season, but its far away from that and people are happy because at least 40 players play everyday and 35 out of them plays only vs AI....
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 7:01 PM
2 thumbs up
#27
Manjji-Puppet, The Manipulative Elite

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edwinas5524 wrote:


(...)


what I'm saying, there is no point to unlock characters if you're not planing to compete vs human opp.... I really hate it cuz you can't be a good player if you're affraid to play vs other true opponent, AI battles don't even teach you any strategy, because even at hard its too easy... and like I said in any other arena there is no exceptions to easier wins or games, just WoN and it takes all the fun away because then you win against good players its much more fun than to beat mindless AI over and over again.... somehow WoN survived 4 seasons with huge activity and no one cryed about how hard it is, and now with no activity its somehow too hard? this update should bring back activity where it was first 3 season, but its far away from that and people are happy because at least 40 players play everyday and 35 out of them plays only vs AI....


I see your points, don't get me wrong. But you are STILL thinking about players such as yourself. Going down the line, the point of contracting characters is about being able to then use them, whether against AI or other players. You proceed to talk about how it's 'no fun' playing against AI. I won't argue, they are easier than most people you currently will find playing PvP. However, you are wrong about not being able to learn anything from AI, AND you forget that while AI may not be fun for you, but does that mean that no one else is allowed to enjoy facing off against the AI? You said it yourself, the majority of players are playing against AI, and the numbers haven't dropped that much. 40 has stayed pretty constant. So before you start typing up a response, think about this: that 35 majority has continued playing against AI. Is it really not fun for them? Would they continue to play if they hated playing against the AI?

I sympathize, understanding how the lack of PvP players affects your ability to play the game as you enjoy it. That being said, it's only fair if you look at it from the other side. Plenty of people ALREADY ENJOY fighting the AI. Why can't the goal be to bridge the gap without taking away AI?

For You Zad.
My Skin Showcase
  Posted on July 17, 2014 at 7:27 PM
#28
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
Joined: January 31, 2011
Manjji-Puppet wrote:


Plenty of people ALREADY ENJOY fighting the AI. Why can't the goal be to bridge the gap without taking away AI?


I definitely agree that if people enjoy playing against the AI, you shouldn't penalize or take that away from them. But at this point my question is...how do we know all those players truly would rather play with AI? I can offer up some possible alternative reasons why they are playing AI.

- They want to fully max their characters and PvP doesn't allow them to do that.
- They are working on Story Mode (I believe this is AI only?).
- They want to just play the game and there aren't enough players on PvP so the search is too long.
- They want to rapidly build rarity, gold, and character recruits and the AI is the fastest way to do so.
- They want to mess around and test some teams out.

Aside from the possibility that some players just genuinely prefer fighting non-humans, these are the only imaginable reasons I could see someone choosing AI over human opponents. Out of all of these, the first one is the only one I cannot see us changing, but the other ones all involve factors that can be resolved by tweaking the way PvP works.
  Posted on July 18, 2014 at 4:01 AM
#29
Auma-no-mi, Prisoner

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the AI is what separates WoN over N-A and S-A
nuff said
  Posted on July 18, 2014 at 5:08 AM
#30
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
Joined: January 31, 2011
Auma-no-mi wrote:

the AI is what separates WoN over N-A and S-A
nuff said


Lol you think that's the only significant thing separating them?

And also, which one has the least active members?