Topic: Senboku Amaya
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 12:56
#1
Kabuto__Yakushi, The Twisted Harvester of Death

Contribution: 673 (630 + 43.4)
Joined: February 18, 2010
I want to talk a bit over Amaya

I think Amaya needs a MAJOR Rework
the reasons are as follows:

First: Amaya is probably one of the least uses character in-game, especially in points/streak ladder i faced her ONCE and already got roughly 100 matches on points/streak ladder

Second: She totally lacks usability and versatility, which is why she doesn't fit real good in any team

Third: She is easy too easy to deal with... one item can shut her down COMPLETELY for 2 turns, expect for invul skill, - namely, sleeping powder - and if she didn't get her protector on soon enough, she dies within 1 or 2 turns then
Additionally, without book of mentality, it is hard to pull night rain off - and with book of mentality, it becomes predictable enough, so that you can invul 1 or 2 characters, or use smoke bomb, use a stun if no WoR or Sake is used, or even use a countering skill if you have one available
Next, Amaya gets better the fewer enemies are there, but on the other hand, she is then also targeting less enemies, which is a tad problematic IMO, as her cost may decrease, her attacks strength gets also weaker
Furthermore, If you kill amaya off first, which is usualy not too hard, she can hardly do a thing throughout a match expect for being BAIT



SO

I think i've listed enough reasons to prove, that Amaya screams for a complete rework




If i think about a rework suggestion, i'd do it the following way:

Ethereal Protector: Grants 30 points of dd infinetely and heals amaya for 5 health. Everytime this skill is used, it heals 5 more health up to 20 health at max, and if this skill is used while in effect, no dd will be granted and will cost no energy. After this skill ended, it cannot be used for 2 turns.
CD:1 cost:one random classes: instant, tactical
This improves her survivability, as she couldnt get raped that hard by affliction then anymore, due to the heal, which slowly adds up - and even though if this one is a tad complicated, it would improve her greatly

Midnight Massacre: For 2 turns, the first non-tactical skill of one target enemy will be countered. If this skill ends and no skill was countered through this skill, Amaya will gain one Intelligence energy.
cost: one intelligence; cd:2; Classes: Tactical; instant
This makes the skill much more appealing to use and increases the synergy with her own skills, as it can grant energy if it didn't counter

Night Rain: Affects one enemy with Night Rain infinetely. While affected by it, the enemy takes 20 affl. damage every turn and will have their skills cost increased by one Wisdom. This skill ends once a skill is used and once the skill ends, it cannot be used for 1 turn. If one of Amaya's allies are dead, the skill will cost one intelligence and one random. If two of amaya's allies are dead, the skill will cost one intelligence energy.
Cost: 2 Intelligence; cd: 1; classes: Mental, Instant
I turned Night Rain into a signle targeted skill, to make it more useful and better adaptable to the flow of battle


To summarize the changes:
1.Added a low, but steady healing effect to Ethereal Protector - but this version could be a tad overpowered
2.Made Midnight Massacre more useful in terms of effectiveness, but considerably weakened it on another side - i am not sure if that skill is a tad up, though
3.Night Rain got the biggest Rework - i made it single targeted, so that it is easier to use and can adapt better to the flow of battle. Also, this version may often prove to be more effective, as she would be a much greater help in taking out individuals - though, i am not sure if that skill is a tad up





So....
If anyone wants to leave comments, you are free to do of course
I'd also like different rework suggestion for Amaya, and if they are deemed good, I'll list them as another possible rework
Also, feel free to criticize my rework suggestion - but please give a REAL REASON why, and possibly how I could improve the suggestion
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 13:02
#2
kabuto_sasuke, The Flaring Inferno

Contribution: 185 (178 + 6.8)
Joined: May 28, 2010
i think it is a little bit op but good work
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 13:02
#3
^_^, The Feral Diva

Contribution: 850 (723 + 127.4)
Joined: February 19, 2010
She's one of my top 3 character's in the game for good reason. I have to disagree with everything you have said in your post.
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 13:09
#4
Karab, The Dark Tiger of the Nobles

Contribution: 2,395 (2,227 + 167.7)
Joined: February 18, 2010
Woah, your suggestions are waaaaaaay oped

Amaya is actually very useful, and if your smart, you never have to use BoM for Night Rain.

So no, other than a minor health increase (ie add 10 health and remove 5 from erthreal protector) she needs no boost/nerf
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 13:10
#5
Zelkyrie__, The Radiant Blossom of the Winter

Contribution: 1,056 (931 + 124.8)
Joined: January 11, 2011
^_^ wrote:
She's one of my top 3 character's in the game for good reason. I have to disagree with everything you have said in your post.

You have won 44 battles with her and only a 3 win streak.

@topic
I agree with most of your suggested reworks except for Midnight Massacre. It already makes the enemy lose some energy, so gaining 1 random energy when it gets triggered is kind of OP. If I may suggest, she should gain 1 random energy IF the enemy did not trigger the counter by the time the counter ends. What do you think?
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 13:25
#6
Xelian, The Dark Demon of the Ancients

Contribution: 621 (564 + 57.4)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Man learn to play the characters before suggestion reworks. Amaya is fine as it is. You just don't know how to use her. If due to some reason she is too weak she just need a 10 hp boost on her health.

  Posted on March 17, 2011 13:38
#7
Kabuto__Yakushi, The Twisted Harvester of Death

Contribution: 673 (630 + 43.4)
Joined: February 18, 2010
Zelkyrie__ wrote:
(...)

You have won 44 battles with her and only a 3 win streak.

@topic
I agree with most of your suggested reworks except for Midnight Massacre. It already makes the enemy lose some energy, so gaining 1 random energy when it gets triggered is kind of OP. If I may suggest, she should gain 1 random energy IF the enemy did not trigger the counter by the time the counter ends. What do you think?
ah i see
yeah you might be right about that, i think i'll add that change

@xelian: I suspect my experience on balancing things within arena games is a "bit" higher than of the most, and i'd have enough people who could tell you that
also, i said please give a reasoning why you disagree with my statement, which you didn't - it is not that i absolutely cannot play with amaya, but it is a matter of fact that she is underused and lacks versability and adaptability, and is overall easily taken care of if one faces her with some skill - and honestly, i haven't seen a real good team with her by now, and i doubt there actualy IS a real good team with her
and also, it seems like even you didn't find a real good team with amaya, as you also didn't have the "+15" streak - and i think noone has it, and that is just prove that she is not as strong as she should be
and also, if you answer to this post, please give some valid reason for you criticism - i do not mean any offense, but, I suspect you to be no idiot, and only idiots are unable to give any reasons
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 13:58
#8
-Je5u, Samurai of Ninja Arts

Contribution: 711 (678 + 33.4)
Joined: January 23, 2011
Amaya needs only a little boost to her hlt maybe. maybe she doesn't need that either. I like that night rain ataacks all enemies and midnight massacre is goos the way it is. Protector can't be easily defeated and u can use it again while it is active. I think she needs just a little more HP, thats all...
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 14:08
#9
MitzT, The Ultimate Tactician

Contribution: 455 (399 + 56.1)
Joined: February 19, 2010
Amaya underpowered?

- She has a 4-turn counter which you'll want to trigger as quickly as possible or you'll be stunned for 4 turns basically.
- She deals 15 infinite affliction damage to all enemies while increasing their costs with a random, making it harder to use skills, which makes the damage stay longer.
- Her protecter is more than enough to stop non-affliction teams from killing her in 1 or 2 turns.
- Using her Night Rain with Midnight Massacre combined you can make your enemies waste epic amounts of energy and not have ANY progress against your team whatsoever.

reasons enough dontcha think?

ohh and against Stunners / Counters

Yuzuki's formation can cancel out Invul or Counters, so you should have no problems there. Yuzuki + Amaya.. good combo is it not?

the reason most people use WoR together with Shogi or BoM is because it triggers it, making stuns impossible after the book or shogi, which is what you want.

  Posted on March 17, 2011 14:19
#10
Kabuto__Yakushi, The Twisted Harvester of Death

Contribution: 673 (630 + 43.4)
Joined: February 18, 2010
MitzT wrote:
Amaya underpowered?

- She has a 4-turn counter which you'll want to trigger as quickly as possible or you'll be stunned for 4 turns basically.
- She deals 15 infinite affliction damage to all enemies while increasing their costs with a random, making it harder to use skills, which makes the damage stay longer.
- Her protecter is more than enough to stop non-affliction teams from killing her in 1 or 2 turns.
- Using her Night Rain with Midnight Massacre combined you can make your enemies waste epic amounts of energy and not have ANY progress against your team whatsoever.

reasons enough dontcha think?
4-turn counter: this is her best move, true
night rain: it is hard to pull off usualy, you can dodge away from her counter with strategic invuls, if soemone is affected by massacre, you can still use a tactical skill, BoM makes it easier to use, but very easy to predict, the most affliction damage someone ever gotten off from amaya to me is 45 to one and 15 to the other two, one might not be able to progress as much as usual, but the enemy needs to use his skills first, which takes time and energy, BoM because quite useless without WoR, you can swap in Jinsei to easily remove night rain
if her protector isn't up for some reason(like, the one facing amaya begins and stuns her with sleeping powder), she dies at 1 or 2 turns, with her protector, she usualy dies at 3 or 4 turns, if you have a good spiking team, in even less turns, and if you affliction damagers, you can just slowly wear her down, watching her die as she does barely do a thing

oh, and if she is so great, why don't you use her? maybe because she is not all that great...

i think my reasoning is more valid than yours, but i thank you for at least reasoning^^

and also, the reason why a straight boost to her would be a bad idea, because.. does anyone still remember the "old" beta amaya? even then, she was unversatile and unadaptable, but absolutely broken

for the yuzuki/amaya thing: true enough, but a yuzuki/amaya team can mostly easily beaten if one just knows how to preserve energy correclty...
amaya is the strongest in 2vs2 situation, a tad weak in a 3vs3 situation, and also a tad weak in a one vs. one situation, as her damage doesnt add up fast enough
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 14:23
1 thumbs up
#11
Zelkyrie__, The Radiant Blossom of the Winter

Contribution: 1,056 (931 + 124.8)
Joined: January 11, 2011
Plus normally people use Kao and Amaya in one team, then people(I don't know for others, but I do) switch in a Senboku character with Crystal Ball, or Yuzuki, which destroys the Kao-Amaya-insertcharhere team's biggest defense mechanism.
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 15:39
#12
skulldj, The Uncontrollable Demon of the Darkness

Contribution: 510 (480 + 29.5)
Joined: March 8, 2010
Kabuto__Yakushi wrote:
I want to talk a bit over Amaya

I think Amaya needs a MAJOR Rework
the reasons are as follows:

First: Amaya is probably one of the least uses character in-game, especially in points/streak ladder i faced her ONCE and already got roughly 100 matches on points/streak ladder

Second: She totally lacks usability and versatility, which is why she doesn't fit real good in any team

Third: She is easy too easy to deal with... one item can shut her down COMPLETELY for 2 turns, expect for invul skill, - namely, sleeping powder - and if she didn't get her protector on soon enough, she dies within 1 or 2 turns then
Additionally, without book of mentality, it is hard to pull night rain off - and with book of mentality, it becomes predictable enough, so that you can invul 1 or 2 characters, or use smoke bomb, use a stun if no WoR or Sake is used, or even use a countering skill if you have one available
Next, Amaya gets better the fewer enemies are there, but on the other hand, she is then also targeting less enemies, which is a tad problematic IMO, as her cost may decrease, her attacks strength gets also weaker
Furthermore, If you kill amaya off first, which is usualy not too hard, she can hardly do a thing throughout a match expect for being BAIT



SO

I think i've listed enough reasons to prove, that Amaya screams for a complete rework




If i think about a rework suggestion, i'd do it the following way:

Ethereal Protector: Grants 30 points of dd infinetely and heals amaya for 5 health. Everytime this skill is used, it heals 5 more health up to 20 health at max, and if this skill is used while in effect, no dd will be granted and will cost no energy. After this skill ended, it cannot be used for 2 turns.
CD:1 cost:one random classes: instant, tactical
This improves her survivability, as she couldnt get raped that hard by affliction then anymore, due to the heal, which slowly adds up - and even though if this one is a tad complicated, it would improve her greatly

Midnight Massacre: For 2 turns, the first non-tactical skill of one target enemy will be countered. If this skill ends and no skill was countered through this skill, Amaya will gain one Intelligence energy.
cost: one intelligence; cd:2; Classes: Tactical; instant
This makes the skill much more appealing to use and increases the synergy with her own skills, as it can grant energy if it didn't counter

Night Rain: Affects one enemy with Night Rain infinetely. While affected by it, the enemy takes 20 affl. damage every turn and will have their skills cost increased by one Wisdom. This skill ends once a skill is used and once the skill ends, it cannot be used for 1 turn. If one of Amaya's allies are dead, the skill will cost one intelligence and one random. If two of amaya's allies are dead, the skill will cost one intelligence energy.
Cost: 2 Intelligence; cd: 1; classes: Mental, Instant
I turned Night Rain into a signle targeted skill, to make it more useful and better adaptable to the flow of battle


To summarize the changes:
1.Added a low, but steady healing effect to Ethereal Protector - but this version could be a tad overpowered
2.Made Midnight Massacre more useful in terms of effectiveness, but considerably weakened it on another side - i am not sure if that skill is a tad up, though
3.Night Rain got the biggest Rework - i made it single targeted, so that it is easier to use and can adapt better to the flow of battle. Also, this version may often prove to be more effective, as she would be a much greater help in taking out individuals - though, i am not sure if that skill is a tad up





So....
If anyone wants to leave comments, you are free to do of course
I'd also like different rework suggestion for Amaya, and if they are deemed good, I'll list them as another possible rework
Also, feel free to criticize my rework suggestion - but please give a REAL REASON why, and possibly how I could improve the suggestion
man i think amaya its fine if you have a good team like amaya(book of mentality) yuume(sake or smoke bomb) and sasori(BoH) amaya never die...with this team i win 9 match in a row on leader:D
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 16:02
#13
SnakeXX, The Untouchable Shadow of Death

Contribution: 745 (698 + 46.8)
Joined: January 24, 2011
Think she needs a health boost only

  Posted on March 17, 2011 17:00
#14
narutokak, The Deceived Diviner

Contribution: 32 (32 + 0)
Joined: January 23, 2011
SnakeXX wrote:
Think she needs a health boost only
I completely agree.
Maybe your Protector could cost a wisdom?
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  Posted on March 17, 2011 17:29
#15
Kabuto__Yakushi, The Twisted Harvester of Death

Contribution: 673 (630 + 43.4)
Joined: February 18, 2010
narutokak wrote:
(...)
I completely agree.
Maybe your Protector could cost a wisdom?
mind that she has low health, which why teh protector costs a random - after all, in terms of total protection, it didnt change too much:
it grants 5 less points of protector, but heals 5 health - total of 35
it heals more health with each use, has a cd of one but cannot renew itself anymore and cannot be used for a short period of time once ended, to balance it's effect and make it a little more tricky to fight her
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The story and the characters of my first clan - The Shikketsu Clan