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Actually, I'm of the opinion that these kinds of people don't perform miracles on you nor anybody. As a matter of fact, it is you who believes the miracle will happen, undergoing hypnosis. That's how it works.

Offtopic: You should PM me sometime, I like the way you're thinking it reminds me of my own beliefs which honestly sounds like Paganism. Regardless of what Christians say it is NOT devil worshiping. It's basically the belief that if there is God that there are more than one and that what ever the mind truly believes will happen, indeed will happen. It only takes the will and power of the mortal to believe not halfheartedly, but believe so much they know.


OnTopic: I still stand firm in saying that I do not believe there is one, maybe I am wrong though. I mean it's possible that there's "something", but as Rukia says I believe there's either more than one, or this divine being is not "God". I do NOT believe in the Christian God whatsoever though.

If there is a God, then there are 10 or so. If not, then people have fallen into an illusion. I feel that God was made in order for him to prevent people from losing heart and hope. I'm not sure, but it's not been scientifically proven. Quite a few people I've discussed it with already, and they want a proof just like I do.. To me, there is still no God. If there were, then in all likelihood people wouldn't be suffering. All in all, ups and downs have never been given by a God.
All the same it is false to say that there is one God, whereas there are, like I've said, 10 or so.

Suffering was brought about by sin on our (man's) part.

I know you don't believe in the bible as being true, but the story of Adam and Eve's temptation and subsequent fall from grace is why there is suffering in the world.

Oh, come along, don't expect me to believe a book written by priests aeound yonks ago. What I do believe is that it's untrue, because if it weren't, then God would already have forgiven us. Oh, and why take it out on us? It was Adam and Eve who did it, not us.
So, in a way, we are entirely unguilty. We don't even have to plead guilty because there's really nothing on our mind, is there?

Oh, come along, don't expect me to believe a book written by priests aeound yonks ago. What I do believe is that it's untrue, because if it weren't, then God would already have forgiven us. Oh, and why take it out on us? It was Adam and Eve who did it, not us.
So, in a way, we are entirely unguilty. We don't even have to plead guilty because there's really nothing on our mind, is there?

Well, obviously this post won't do much to convince you...seeing as though you doubt the bible...but this is what it says:

Romans 5:12-14 ESV

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come."

Read more here.

Also, onto your point about forgiveness. Forgiveness is achieved through Christ...who I'm sure you don't believe in either...

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Well, obviously this post won't do much to convince you...seeing as though you doubt the bible...but this is what it says:

Romans 5:12-14 ESV

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come."

Read more here.

Also, onto your point about forgiveness. Forgiveness is achieved through Christ...who I'm sure you don't believe in either...

What I am saying is that you really shouldn't say these things because I know that nobody should take it out on the others, but the very person who sinned. It wasn't us who ate the apple. In fact, it was Adam and Eve. So God is not just.

(...)

Well, obviously this post won't do much to convince you...seeing as though you doubt the bible...but this is what it says:

Romans 5:12-14 ESV

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come."

Under that same logic, should we not round up all existing Christians and try them for genocide for the Crusades?
That's the same logic, transferring sin over ages.

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

“Submit your self to every ordinance of man ... to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors.” 1 Peter 2:13-14

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Under that same logic, should we not round up all existing Christians and try them for genocide for the Crusades?
That's the same logic, transferring sin over ages.

If I'm not mistaken, the Crusades were carried out by the Catholic Church, correct? If that's the case, Catholicism is only one denomination/sect of Christianity. It does not characterize ALL Christians.

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

“Submit your self to every ordinance of man ... to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors.” 1 Peter 2:13-14

Not many states, much less countries, are governed under theocracy. Furthermore, many countries (in some way or another) practice some sort of wall of separation between church and state.

Even if Christian theocracy was characteristic of all governments, the bible clearly details how believers can gain pardon of their sins through Christ.

So my answer is "no". We should not round all Christians up and try them for genocide committed during the Crusades.

(...)
What I am saying is that you really shouldn't say these things because I know that nobody should take it out on the others, but the very person who sinned. It wasn't us who ate the apple. In fact, it was Adam and Eve. So God is not just.

-Rukia: We were BORN into sin. The Fall of Man through the disobedience Adam (and Eve) brought forth sin into the world.

Psalm 51:5:

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (KJV)

"Indeed, I was born guilty. I was a sinner when my mother conceived me." (God's Word Translation)

We (all of man) sinned before even being born.

(...)

If I'm not mistaken, the Crusades were carried out by the Catholic Church, correct? If that's the case, Catholicism is only one denomination/sect of Christianity. It does not characterize ALL Christians.


(...)

Not many states, much less countries, are governed under theocracy. Furthermore, many countries (in some way or another) practice some sort of wall of separation between church and state.

Even if Christian theocracy was characteristic of all governments, the bible clearly details how believers can gain pardon of their sins through Christ.

So my answer is "no". We should not round all Christians up and try them for genocide committed during the Crusades.


(...)

-Rukia: We were BORN into sin. The Fall of Man through the disobedience Adam (and Eve) brought forth sin into the world.

Psalm 51:5:

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (KJV)

"Indeed, I was born guilty. I was a sinner when my mother conceived me." (God's Word Translation)

We (all of man) sinned before even being born.

Her point is, Jrawls, that it makes no sense for us all to be punished because Adam and Eve sinned. It is just illogical. Are you telling me that a newborn baby is a sinner without even having any knowledge of the world, of what good or evil really is? If a mother sins, should her daughter be blamed for it? No.

Besides, the entire story of Adam and Eve makes no sense. So, you're saying that all of the seven billion people on this planet are descended from just two people? There are so many problems with that. First of all, it does not allow for genetic diversity. The whole population would be white, there could be no blacks or Asians. Secondly, It would mean that we would all be extremely stupid. what happens when a brother and sister have a child? It has extreme mental and physical defects. If Adam and Eve were a true story, then by the third generation, their grandchildren, the human race would have ceased to exist. There is no way two people could have populated the Earth by themselves.

If I'm not mistaken, the Crusades were carried out by the Catholic Church, correct? If that's the case, Catholicism is only one denomination/sect of Christianity. It does not characterize ALL Christians.

Adam and Eve are not representative of all humans, but you're still making your point there. Under your logic, we should still round them all up and try them for genocide. The actions of the few condemn all, which is what you're saying, but it's suddenly not the case when applied to Christianity.

Not many states, much less countries, are governed under theocracy. Furthermore, many countries (in some way or another) practice some sort of wall of separation between church and state.

Even if Christian theocracy was characteristic of all governments, the bible clearly details how believers can gain pardon of their sins through Christ.

The bible also states, as I just said, to submit yourself to laws of any government. Nazi war criminals were charged for genocide when that happened a while ago.

The bible also specifically details that we should kill babies, but should we do that?

Psalm 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

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Her point is, Jrawls, that it makes no sense for us all to be punished because Adam and Eve sinned. It is just illogical. Are you telling me that a newborn baby is a sinner without even having any knowledge of the world, of what good or evil really is? If a mother sins, should her daughter be blamed for it? No.

Yes, it seems a bit irrational, but we as people have done this type of thing for years, and it's been relatively acceptable.

Besides, the entire story of Adam and Eve makes no sense. So, you're saying that all of the seven billion people on this planet are descended from just two people? There are so many problems with that. First of all, it does not allow for genetic diversity. The whole population would be white, there could be no blacks or Asians.

Who's to say that man descended from "whites"? The bible does not even mention race. It is merely a social construct and another means to further stratify people and promote inequality.

Secondly, It would mean that we would all be extremely stupid. what happens when a brother and sister have a child? It has extreme mental and physical defects. If Adam and Eve were a true story, then by the third generation, their grandchildren, the human race would have ceased to exist. There is no way two people could have populated the Earth by themselves.

Not necessarily. Inbreeding increases the likelihood that recessive traits will be expressed. It does not guarantee that they will. Furthermore, the genes which code these traits may not even have been present in the human gene pool in those days.

I'd also like to state that, though we ultimately descended from Adam and Eve, our most recent ancestors are Noah and his family. I don't know how much relevance this piece of information holds in this debate, but I thought I'd mention it...

Adam and Eve are not representative of all humans, but you're still making your point there. Under your logic, we should still round them all up and try them for genocide. The actions of the few condemn all, which is what you're saying, but it's suddenly not the case when applied to Christianity.

Obviously, you missed this piece of information:

"...the bible clearly details how believers can gain pardon of their sins through Christ."

We as people are forgiven from sin through Christ. Thus, we are innocent, and the government holds no justification in trying innocent people for those crimes.

The bible also specifically details that we should kill babies, but should we do that?

Psalm 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Let's explore that passage in its entirety, shall we...?

NIV:

"1 By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept
when we remembered Zion.
2 There on the poplars
we hung our harps,
3 for there our captors asked us for songs,
our tormentors demanded songs of joy;
they said, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”
4 How can we sing the songs of the LORD
while in a foreign land?
5 If I forget you, Jerusalem,
may my right hand forget its skill.
6 May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth
if I do not remember you,
if I do not consider Jerusalem
my highest joy.

7 Remember, LORD, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried,
“tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks."

God was not issuing a commandment to kill babies. That much can be gleaned from merely interpreting the verse within its context...

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

This one isn't so easy to justify, and I won't even attempt the feat since the argument is rather lengthy, and I lack the patience and energy to type all of that text.

However, I will point out that for God to have issued such a command, these people must have deserved the penalty. This is not to say that God despises them, but, rather, he hates the sin that exists within us.

Quite frankly, this is the first time that I've been made aware of this verse. I took some time to read and analyze this for myself. Here are a couple of writings if you want to reference the information:

1
2

No one should give a shit. It's a non-issue that has been balloned up to elephantine proportions.

and now its funny how today is monday yesterday was april 1 and everyone is serious today 3rd thread like is there god, bullied, rapes? what wrong with you people enjoy your life

^No way, they got debates and other exciting shit to do ONL. Like argue about the existence of god, which has no evidence for or against it and is in general just a waste of time.

The good without the chaos and the chaos without the good can't exist without the chaos. an unbelievable equilibrium, but true and possible.

Imagine a word without the chaos: at first, everything will look okay, and you believe that the life is wonderful and you can feel safe forever. But after that? The world will become to bored. The humans want to do something different, but they don't know what. We will become just like the robots, and . This can be the slowest death ever.

Now, imagine a word without the good: at first, we believe that we can do everything because nobody will stop us. But, because everything will be destroyed, the life will be destroyed too. This can be the quickest death ever.

In both of the situations, the final will be the same. This is why the good and the chaos can't exist without each other.

This is why I don't believe that the God we learn at school or at church is true, but i believe there is something beyond our understanding that keeps this equilibrium intact and try to don't make a part more powerful than the other

The christian god is, essentially, a fiction. A relic of ages past, like Zeus, Odin, Ra, and so on.

There is, however, a god.

Just look in the mirror. There he is.