Topic: Same-sex Marriage

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  Posted on July 3, 2011 8:21 PM
#31
jrawls9, The Raging Warbringer of Hanto

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Ragnalesca wrote:

You don't think first cousins should be allowed to marry?


What's the point of having an incest taboo when we still encourage sexual relations between blood-relatives? No, I don't support first-cousin marriage.
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 8:25 PM
#32
Ragnalesca, Captain of the Moon

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Marriage is a serious right, in my opinion, especially when there are legal advantages associated with it. If you're going to take it away from someone, you should have a good reason to.

What's yours?
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 8:41 PM
#33
jrawls9, The Raging Warbringer of Hanto

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Ragnalesca wrote:

Marriage is a serious right, in my opinion, especially when there are legal advantages associated with it. If you're going to take it away from someone, you should have a good reason to.

What's yours?


I didn't say that I'd take it away, merely that I don't support it, or, in other words, don't agree with it. Of course, I also think that marriage rights are serious,hence, the reason why I support same-sex marriage. However, I am a firm believer in the incest taboo, and I disagree with marital relations between family members, even if there are restrictions put on fertility and age. Marriage doesn't exactly ensure sex by any means, but the availability is there, and thus, I don't support first-cousin marriage. I don't see the sense in allowing first cousins to be married while we also deny this same right to homosexuals.
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 8:51 PM
#34
Ragnalesca, Captain of the Moon

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When you said you "didn't support it" in response to me saying "do you think they should be allowed to marry" it sounded like you didn't think they should be allowed to marry.

We allow first cousins to be married while denying the same right to homosexuals because most people in areas that follow the laws you speak of have different value systems that tend to result in supporting marriage with first cousins and being personally against same-sex marriage, and the law tends to reflect the personal desires of the majority, though you probably already knew that.

You're being a little unclear on your beliefs. If you could make the decisions and have the people accept your beliefs, would you make same-sex marriage legal and first-cousin marriage illegal?
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 9:14 PM
#35
jrawls9, The Raging Warbringer of Hanto

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Ragnalesca wrote:

When you said you "didn't support it" in response to me saying "do you think they should be allowed to marry" it sounded like you didn't think they should be allowed to marry.

We allow first cousins to be married while denying the same right to homosexuals because most people in areas that follow the laws you speak of have different value systems that tend to result in supporting marriage with first cousins and being personally against same-sex marriage, and the law tends to reflect the personal desires of the majority, though you probably already knew that.

You're being a little unclear on your beliefs. If you could make the decisions and have the people accept your beliefs, would you make same-sex marriage legal and first-cousin marriage illegal?


Going back to my previous posts: "I do believe homosexual couples should be allowed to be married." (post 27)and "I didn't say that I'd take it away, merely that I don't support it, or, in other words, don't agree with it." (post 33).

In essence, I don't agree with first-cousin marriage, yet, I also understand that putting aside my own biasness and seeing what is most important (marriage rights) is key to determining what is fair. To answer your question, neither should be allowed without the other also being allowed.
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 9:18 PM
#36
Ragnalesca, Captain of the Moon

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Do you think that straight couples should be allowed marriage rights if other couples aren't allowed to have marriage rights?
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 9:34 PM
#37
jrawls9, The Raging Warbringer of Hanto

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Ragnalesca wrote:

Do you think that straight couples should be allowed marriage rights if other couples aren't allowed to have marriage rights?


Regardless of the sexual preference, if you're going to extend marital rights to one group of people, it's only fair to also extend these same rights to other groups.
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 9:54 PM
#38
Ragnalesca, Captain of the Moon

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That doesn't clearly answer my question.

You said that if gay people aren't allowed marriage, first cousins shouldn't be allowed either.

Do you think that if gay people aren't allowed marriage, straight people shouldn't be allowed either?
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 10:27 PM
#39
jrawls9, The Raging Warbringer of Hanto

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Ragnalesca wrote:

That doesn't clearly answer my question.

You said that if gay people aren't allowed marriage, first cousins shouldn't be allowed either.

Do you think that if gay people aren't allowed marriage, straight people shouldn't be allowed either?


Correction: My answer was clear, just not direct. You could have easily implied my opinion from that statement.

If that is deemed as fair, then yes, I do think that "if gay people aren't allowed marriage, straight people shouldn't be allowed either." However extreme this may seem, part of the point of a law is to allow equality for all people.

As you and I both know, the denial of marriage between a man and a woman will simply not exist, as cohabitation is frowned upon and it's an infringement upon freedom of religion.


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  Posted on July 3, 2011 10:34 PM
#40
Ragnalesca, Captain of the Moon

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Question #2:

Should pedophiles be given the right to marry children, if not engage in sexual relations with them?
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  Posted on July 3, 2011 10:42 PM
#41
jrawls9, The Raging Warbringer of Hanto

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Ragnalesca wrote:

Question #2:

Should pedophiles be given the right to marry children, if not engage in sexual relations with them?


Regardless if this is law or not, parents still have to give their consents for their children to get married if the children do not meet the marriage age requirement. In some cases, the child must be given judicial consent to get married. With that being "said", I have no real decision in this matter...unless, of course, I am one of the parents in question.
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  Posted on July 4, 2011 12:15 PM
#42
-Rukia, The Ambitious Priestess of the Hebi

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Karab wrote:

(...)

God Gave Christians 10 Comandments
Not a single one of them tells us that being gay is a sin

The sven deadly sins are:
Sloth
Greed
Vanity
Envy
Revenge
Gluttony
Pride

None of those say that omosexuality is wrong either

Each represented by the Seven Princes of Hell, right...

thethtutzaw wrote:

OMG rukia is so into debating about gays and lesbians :push

my view on gays and lesbians and anything related is a sin and it against the laws of nature.

I am going to be a researcher anyway, but no, I am not so into debating gays and lesbians.
Saiyajin wrote:

(...)in the bible it clearly states its a disgust to him

Indeed.Healing Homosexuality - Christian Ministry Please look into the text because there's a part when it says that according to the Bible, God is against homosexuality indeed. However, the gay man/lesbian woman tells him to repel by himself, saying it's a sin.
Ragnalesca wrote:

Question #2:

Should pedophiles be given the right to marry children, if not engage in sexual relations with them?

By no means! Due to the fact that they are CHILDREN, they have to go to school and have themselves educated by teachers, going through difficult periods of life. Pedophilia is a sin, and just downloading a pedophile porn is a way to get arrested. Your IP address will tell the Internet Police where you are, they will take your computer away and arrest you. You can get 10 years in jail for doing this,.


Ok, to you, Homosexuality is a sin, but why if it's all about love?
Even if some people could heal, there's not really much point in it,
as all they seek is love. Is it really hard to accept them?
Ok, let me give you a tip: try to focus on his/her good properties, try to make yourself like him/her and NOT constantly think of that sexual desires part. That's what I do. Wouldn't you like to cuddle up to your parent or to your friends when you're sad? Don't you want any moral support? Let's just freaking accept them. Ok, next time I meet a homosexal, I'll tell them I am not, so they shouldn't try to
"want me". That's all. They aren't monsters, criminals or something.
They don't kill you. If you were homosexual, would you be pleased with people telling you something like "Freaking ugly faggot, gtfo here. You ugly bitch we hate ya coz ya aiN't no human as ya be a homosexual. Go choose the right path dude/girl". Wouldn't you be sad?
All I'm saying is accept them and make friends. Be a human.
  Posted on July 4, 2011 7:04 PM
#43
Ragnalesca, Captain of the Moon

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-Rukia wrote:

Ok, to you, Homosexuality is a sin, but why if it's all about love?


I don't know why anything is a sin, and don't want to try to interpret god's laws according to my intuitive beliefs. Humans are flawed.
Quote:

Even if some people could heal, there's not really much point in it,
as all they seek is love.


The point is avoiding sin and living as god instructed us to. Love for god should be greater than love for any other being, if you love god then you should be able to listen to him above your own desires.
Quote:

Is it really hard to accept them?


I accept them without issue. It doesn't change the fact that homosexuality is a sin.
Quote:

Ok, let me give you a tip: try to focus on his/her good properties, try to make yourself like him/her and NOT constantly think of that sexual desires part. That's what I do. Wouldn't you like to cuddle up to your parent or to your friends when you're sad? Don't you want any moral support? Let's just freaking accept them.


Accepting them as people and accepting their homosexuality are two different things. Of course I care for people and want them to be as happy as possible but spiritual health is something that will be with you forever while psychological health is very short-term. Isn't it better to help them through their homosexuality issue than let them suffer spiritually?
Quote:

Ok, next time I meet a homosexal, I'll tell them I am not, so they shouldn't try to "want me". That's all. They aren't monsters, criminals or something.


They're sinners. An important thing to remember is that you shouldn't be against homosexuals, you should be against homosexuality. The desires are what is wrong, not the people. Only god can judge people.
Quote:

They don't kill you. If you were homosexual, would you be pleased with people telling you something like "Freaking ugly faggot, gtfo here. You ugly bitch we hate ya coz ya aiN't no human as ya be a homosexual. Go choose the right path dude/girl". Wouldn't you be sad?


Yes. And that's an example of being hurtful and unhelpful. The problem isn't nearly as simple as "harass them viciously or accept them completely" though, that's an oversimplification.
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  Posted on July 4, 2011 7:11 PM
#44
LuccaHurricane, Defender

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I see no problem with Homosexuality. I mean, it's not something nice to be seen on the street, but if two man or woman love each other, I see no problem for them to show it.

I live in the city where every year there is a Gay Parade (a.k.a. São Paulo) and many friends of mine, which are not homosexual, have been there, some more than once.

God will accept you anyway. Don't get me wrong with this, for I am an atheist, but it doesn't really matter with you're gay or not. The thing that being gay is not acceptable comes from the Middle Age. Now you call yourselves "civilized and modern" while you cannot break free from a concept that dates from 1000 years ago.
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  Posted on July 4, 2011 7:13 PM
#45
Karab, The Blue Tiger of the Ancients

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Ragnalesca wrote:

(...)

I don't know why anything is a sin, and don't want to try to interpret god's laws according to my intuitive beliefs. Humans are flawed.


Oh, so your saying hat your omnipotent god, who created you in his image, made a number of mistakes

That doesn't sound very omnipotent, so maybe he got this wrong too
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