(...)

Clearly she's not broken since we obviously haven't used her yet.

Paper is Paper, In-game is something Different

WHile in-game IS a different story, the concept of removing a character's item entirely from Turn 0 is game-breaking. There's no reason for her NOT to use it on turn 0, so the thing will be to use it on turn 0 regardless.

Loving the new saigai updated proposal, and caltrop too. But the rest of my comment stays the same.

(...)WHile in-game IS a different story, the concept of removing a character's item entirely from Turn 0 is game-breaking. There's no reason for her NOT to use it on turn 0, so the thing will be to use it on turn 0 regardless.

Agreed, Sainan's changes are necissary, except Pickpocket's no-cost thing. Maybe reduce the c/d of it by 1, and then people can stop arguing about it O.o

Other than that, all changes are great! :D Is it me, or did u guys just neak that caltrop, and ignition ignore in there? ;)

(...)WHile in-game IS a different story, the concept of removing a character's item entirely from Turn 0 is game-breaking. There's no reason for her NOT to use it on turn 0, so the thing will be to use it on turn 0 regardless.

Well, IMO it's not broken, As for her being able to take a item, It's her character, Item/Tactical and Now Mental disruptive

She's the character that can break characters (again) that heavily rely on Items.
Although I don't like the CD being Low, it's the only thing that throws me off. A low CD will force opponents to use there Item combo's early on.
She's that counter to items.

You're right, There is no reason for her "NOT" to use it turn 1, As it's free and she's able to take an item out of the game. Does it impact energy? Does it impact HP? Does it impact the characters skills?

Last I checked, It didn't. So how is it broken?

Your concept of her being broken is based of a single skill that takes away items. But it's clearly not. Since it doesn't effect anything else. This game is still 3v3 with 4 skills for each characters. Items are a booster for them. They're "NOT" Meant to rely on them solo, So we have Sainan, The character that disrupts Items.
Cheesy on Paper, Aye

(...)

Well, IMO it's not broken, As for her being able to take a item, It's her character, Item/Tactical and Now Mental disruptive

She's the character that can break characters (again) that heavily rely on Items.
Although I don't like the CD being Low, it's the only thing that throws me off. A low CD will force opponents to use there Item combo's early on.
She's that counter to items.

You're right, There is no reason for her "NOT" to use it turn 1, As it's free and she's able to take an item out of the game. Does it impact energy? Does it impact HP? Does it impact the characters skills?

Last I checked, It didn't. So how is it broken?

Your concept of her being broken is based of a single skill that takes away items. But it's clearly not. Since it doesn't effect anything else. This game is still 3v3 with 4 skills for each characters. Items are a booster for them. They're "NOT" Meant to rely on them solo, So we have Sainan, The character that disrupts Items.
Cheesy on Paper, Aye

You say items are boosters, but they are what brings characters together. I mean. without items, most of the characters cant be the effective character they are now. Imagine the game with no characters. Characters like Amaya, Hikaru, Akira (even though she's Up), and others would be considered hard to use. Since Sainan low CD and cost Pickpocket is proposed, that may just happen in the game.

Yeah, Sainan doesnt impact wither of those things you stated, but it does impact the team's strategy and corrupts it, making the opposing team having to change their tactics.

This game is 3vs3 and most characters heavily relies on an item because of their skillset. If items are not to be relied on, then why are they're here other than a small booster? They bring teams together.

(...)
You say items are boosters, but they are what brings characters together. I mean. without items, most of the characters cant be the effective character they are now. Imagine the game with no characters. Characters like Amaya, Hikaru, Akira (even though she's Up), and others would be considered hard to use. Since Sainan low CD and cost Pickpocket is proposed, that may just happen in the game.

Yeah, Sainan doesnt impact wither of those things you stated, but it does impact the team's strategy and corrupts it, making the opposing team having to change their tactics.

This game is 3vs3 and most characters heavily relies on an item because of their skillset. If items are not to be relied on, then why are they're here other than a small booster? They bring teams together.

Hence why I said I'm against the low CD.


4- C/D - 5 C/D

Oh and you pretty much supported my post. As she does disrupt teams because of her removing ability, Makes them change there strategic approach.
Also she helps against people that abuse WoR, FB+Feathers, Ect.

I don't see the problem

Here is a proposal for Balance update 3.1.

Kemuri Saigai

Encroaching doom:
The following turn, ignition costs 2 random energy.

Ignition:
Bypasses invulnerability.

Kemuri Sainan

Dashing throw:
Deal 10 damage to an additional random enemy.

Hallucinogens:
Stun tactic and mental.

Pickpocket:
Decrease cost to none. Cooldown decreased to 3. Each time this skill is performed it will cost 1 random energy to perform it the next time.

Cleansing Water
Cleansing Water now ignores invulnerability.

Caltrop
Energy cost reduced to none.

Senboku Eien
Fog of Eternity:
Change to instant.

Vision of Death:
20 damage for start and each boost with 20 and has a cooldown of 3.

One Step Ahead:
Eien can also target himself.

Minds Eye:
Eien bypasses counters and invulnerability.

Edit: changed Bowl of Water to Cleasing water

Saigai
Ignition for 2 randoms? o.o Hell no.
Ignition bypassing invul... well, that could actually work.

Sainan
Pickpocket boost is a yes, but the others would totally ruin her. I'd like to keep the "extra target" to the Maiden for now, so no. And the mental stun... that's just so amazingly OP. I suggest boosting allucinogens by having one less cooldown.

Cleanising Water
Yes please!!!! This is so needed!

Caltrop
No energy :D This game is gonna become cheap. I approve this though.

Eien
FoE Being instant? I love you This is like one of the most needed balances in this game.
VoD Tbh I don't agree with this. VoD is quite situational as it is, and more cooldown will totally ruin Eien. Besides, right now VoD is the only thing that makes him useful (see ME V.2)
OSA I agree with this one, extremely needed.
ME Bypassing invul? I don't think that's actually needed.

Mind's Eye V.2
If you really need to change (nerf) Eien's damaging skill, make ME disabling stuns on him instead (not invul).
:>

Thanks for reading and for preview ;D

(...)


Hence why I said I'm against the low CD.


4- C/D - 5 C/D

Oh and you pretty much supported my post. As she does disrupt teams because of her removing ability, Makes them change there strategic approach.
Also she helps against people that abuse WoR, FB+Feathers, Ect.

I don't see the problem

Yeah, she does disrupt teams using Pickpocket. I was stating the boost it got makes it too fast and that whole pickpocket boost was unnecessary at that. Also, you're forgetting she can disable healing, and stun tactic skills, so she is a complete shutdown in the support department. That adding the Pickpocket proposal will make her too damn good.

imo she will be fine if they just drop the mental stun she will be fine with the other 2 boosts and that one will be meaningless in a way that she becomes more powerful than she needs to be otherwise i find all the suggestions to be fine if she needs a nerf in the future she will get one but she needs to go up like 20% to be in OP range which is ALOT of wins as far as shutting down items goes its only truly effective against Shoji, Yukigaaru, Yugana and maybe Hai sure this could pose a problem and there %s will probably drop quite a bit as they fall out of favor but like i said if it needs a nerf in the future they will nerf it i dont see a problem with it as is.

We are going to implement the balance proposal as it is now. We realize there are some risks to it (Sainan's pickpocket, Saigai's double boost and possibly overbuffing Eien), but we'll be keeping a close eye on them.