Topic: Budou Ken hotfix

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This topic was closed by Yuudai
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 2:13 PM
6 thumbs up
#1
Yuudai, Savior

Contribution: 1,233 (813 + 420)
Joined: January 21, 2010
Ultimate Budou:
Increase the cost to 1 random, up from no energy.

Snake Tail Punch:
While affected by Ultimate Budou, this skill lasts 3 turns and has a cooldown of 2.

The cost increase to Ultimate Budou is designed to make him slower. However, this form has proven to be UP. So to compensate, we are boosting Snake Tail Puch.
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 2:14 PM
#2
Sand_Spirit, The Trueborn Elite

Contribution: 1,958 (1,725 + 233)
Joined: March 3, 2010
Yes! I like it!
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 2:16 PM
1 thumbs up
#3
crogronk, The Supreme Champion

Contribution: 304 (273 + 31)
Joined: June 14, 2010
Yuudai wrote:

Ken is currently heavily op. Not only is he the most used character in the ladder, he is also one of the highest rated, nearing a 60% win rate. Therefore I am setting up the following balance proposal:

Ultimate Budou:
Increase the cost to 1 random, up from no energy.

Snake Tail Punch:
While affected by Ultimate Budou, this skill lasts 3 turns.

The cost increase to Ultimate Budou is designed to make him slower. However, this form has proven to be UP. So to compensate, we are boosting Snake Tail Puch.


he is verry powerfull now for his fast spike:)..i guess this will make him slower and things would become more interesting..agree with the hotfix
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 2:20 PM
#4
TempestTheory, The Crystal Collector

Contribution: 271 (208 + 63)
Joined: October 10, 2011
I like this. I like this a lot.
Snake Tail Punch was barely ever used, and this'll help that, along with taking down his rediculous "50 damage on the second turn almost guaranteed" combo with Warbanner of Resistance.
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 2:20 PM
1 thumbs up
#5
TediMoci, The Respected Tiger of the Ancestors

Contribution: 402 (284 + 118)
Joined: March 3, 2010
Yes, I think Budou is OP. The 50 damage for 1 specific is OP. However, I think it would be better to decrease the damage dealt by Dragon Fist to 40 during Ultimate Budou, because if you increase the cost of Ultimate Budou, it would make him very slow and not so good at 1 vs 1. My suggestion is to keep Ultimate Budou as it is, but decrease the damage of Dragon Fist. Snake Tail Punch is okay.
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 2:39 PM
2 thumbs up
#6
Demonkings, The Golden Demon

Contribution: 1,488 (1,318 + 170)
Joined: March 11, 2011
Yuudai wrote:

Ken is currently heavily op. Not only is he the most used character in the ladder, he is also one of the highest rated, nearing a 60% win rate. Therefore I am setting up the following balance proposal:

Ultimate Budou:
Increase the cost to 1 random, up from no energy.

Snake Tail Punch:
While affected by Ultimate Budou, this skill lasts 3 turns.

The cost increase to Ultimate Budou is designed to make him slower. However, this form has proven to be UP. So to compensate, we are boosting Snake Tail Puch.


Hmm...you know what! I actually like it! I truthfully had problems playing with him especially since it only lasts 2 turns which cost me the game when it ended. So yeah....Thumbed!
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 2:53 PM
3 thumbs up
#7
Madmal, The Drunken Challenger

Contribution: 9 (6 + 3)
Joined: February 23, 2010
In my opinion, the reasons for him being considered overpowered by having a high rate is not only because of him, but for his teammates as well.

Ken has a seemingly predictable set of actions, which can also be used to direct the attention to him (remember Rule Number One: "Never act incautiously when facing a small wrinkly bald smiling old man!" ), even more with the added bonus of the Warbanner of resistance. I have played with a team of Ken/Tori/Hikaru, reaching a ladder streak of +7. This team, while it's pretty reliant on Ken's heavy damage, brings more damage from Tori/Hikaru's combo. I've had many opponents who have surrendered at the 3rd-4th turn because they didn't properly attend to the person afflicted with Tori's attack (which would've been lessened with invulnerability or completely denied with Cleansing water), resulting on a one-turn KO on one character.

While not as powerful as the prep version, Ken's Dragon Fist is still does considerable (and satisfying)damage, particularly when the opponent expects me to use Ultimate Budou again. Maybe Dragon fist damage could be lessened? I accept the fact that i fear that this hotfix will render my current most effective team useless (specially since i lack the tokens for the villain characters), since it's quite dependent of a proper handling of the energy and its costs. I do Agree Snake Tail Punch needs a boost, even after using Ultimate Budou, it's still a second fiddle to Dragon Punch despite it's affliction damage, seems only worthy of use when you can't afford the second skill, and easily shrugged off by players dedicated enough on acting with the character.

TL;DR:
Dumb people focus too much on small wrinkly bald smiling old man and forget companions, Poster fears for only team that seems to give him positive results on ladder, that may fall in quality if UB costs energy.Poster suggests if lowering DP's boosted attack would be a valid fix instead. Proposed fix on STP seems fair to poster, since attack usually gets overlooked.
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 2:59 PM
2 thumbs up
#8
Demonkings, The Golden Demon

Contribution: 1,488 (1,318 + 170)
Joined: March 11, 2011
Madmal wrote:

In my opinion, the reasons for him being considered overpowered by having a high rate is not only because of him, but for his teammates as well.

Ken has a seemingly predictable set of actions, which can also be used to direct the attention to him (remember Rule Number One: "Never act incautiously when facing a small wrinkly bald smiling old man!" ), even more with the added bonus of the Warbanner of resistance. I have played with a team of Ken/Tori/Hikaru, reaching a ladder streak of +7. This team, while it's pretty reliant on Ken's heavy damage, brings more damage from Tori/Hikaru's combo. I've had many opponents who have surrendered at the 3rd-4th turn because they didn't properly attend to the person afflicted with Tori's attack (which would've been lessened with invulnerability or completely denied with Cleansing water), resulting on a one-turn KO on one character.

While not as powerful as the prep version, Ken's Dragon Fist is still does considerable (and satisfying)damage, particularly when the opponent expects me to use Ultimate Budou again. Maybe Dragon fist damage could be lessened? I accept the fact that i fear that this hotfix will render my current most effective team useless (specially since i lack the tokens for the villain characters), since it's quite dependent of a proper handling of the energy and its costs. I do Agree Snake Tail Punch needs a boost, even after using Ultimate Budou, it's still a second fiddle to Dragon Punch despite it's affliction damage, seems only worthy of use when you can't afford the second skill, and easily shrugged off by players dedicated enough on acting with the character.

TL;DR:
Dumb people focus too much on small wrinkly bald smiling old man and forget companions, Poster fears for only team that seems to give him positive results on ladder, that may fall in quality if UB costs energy.Poster suggests if lowering DP's boosted attack would be a valid fix instead. Proposed fix on STP seems fair to poster, since attack usually gets overlooked.


Erm are you referring to Yuurin? Cause Ken never smiles(and he is not wrinkly) cause he is emo that Barbie left him lol.

Anyway I agree with you, Dragon fist instead of doing double damage can be reduced to 40-45 damage to match Snake Tail punch.
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 3:07 PM
1 thumbs up
#9
love-machine, The Stolen Thief

Contribution: 1,015 (938 + 77)
Joined: March 3, 2010
yuudai wrote:

Ken is currently heavily op. Not only is he the most used character in the ladder, he is also one of the highest rated, nearing a 60% win rate. Therefore I am setting up the following balance proposal:

Ultimate Budou:
Increase the cost to 1 random, up from no energy.

Snake Tail Punch:
While affected by Ultimate Budou, this skill lasts 3 turns.

The cost increase to Ultimate Budou is designed to make him slower. However, this form has proven to be UP. So to compensate, we are boosting Snake Tail Puch


Well, you know i'm not a big fan of this proposal, but i say for the sake of balance just do it and see where it leads.
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 3:13 PM
#10
imperialgundam, Monk of Ninja Arts

Contribution: 54 (45 + 9)
Joined: February 16, 2010
I agree, this would give snake tail punch more usage seeing as I rarely ever see that skill being used. Its always prep then spike with him

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Epic AMV
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 3:20 PM
#11
Madmal, The Drunken Challenger

Contribution: 9 (6 + 3)
Joined: February 23, 2010
Demonkings wrote:


(...)

Erm are you referring to Yuurin? Cause Ken never smiles(and he is not wrinkly) cause he is emo that Barbie left him lol.

Anyway I agree with you, Dragon fist instead of doing double damage can be reduced to 40-45 damage to match Snake Tail punch.


It's a quote from a book from the Discworld series named "Thief of Time", which features an order of monks dedicated to maintain (as much as they can) the integrity of the flow of time on a world that stands on a messed situation due to a nasty series of wars between wizards (which brought stuff like upside-down mountains or flowers that bloom the year before they are planted).

It's also a callback to the "seemingly innocuous older villager that is probably a hidden master of some esoteric martial art" (or the like) that seems to feature on some kung-fu movies.

Granted, Ken is more angry that happy, which in my opinion only makes him more menacing.
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 3:21 PM
#12
xXxMarcelxXx, The Untouchable Mistress of the Phoenix Queen

Contribution: 5,651 (5,051 + 600)
Joined: July 30, 2010
Snake Tail Punch would be used more often and it can also count to a good spike skill.
Characters, who relie on protectors, will be screwed by Snake Tail Punch.

I like this version more than the current one because if you use Ultimate Budou and get stunned or the enemy's team protects itself, you just lose the alternative effects but you did not lose any energy.

Let's see how it will work.
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  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 3:24 PM
#13
Hellawyer, The Supreme Demon, Rank 1 of PLS-2

Contribution: 937 (843 + 94)
Joined: May 5, 2011
love-machine wrote:


(...)

Well, you know i'm not a big fan of this proposal, but i say for the sake of balance just do it and see where it leads.


Same here. To me, isn't the better hotfix, as I stated in Balance Discussion, but is far better than the no cost Ultimate Budou.
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 4:08 PM
#14
andytheo123, Prisoner

Contribution: 667 (628 + 39)
Joined: January 25, 2011
I don't know what to say,because STP will probably be a problem versus characters like jun and takeo
Anyways,i think is better than UB no cost.
I was expecting UB to become mental.It look better in my oppinion.
Let's see how does it work though.
like a boss
  Posted on November 16, 2011 at 4:29 PM
#15
Roach, The Masked Samurai of the Red Dawn

Contribution: 1,303 (1,108 + 195)
Joined: February 17, 2010
"I don't like this proposal, because I use Ken, Ikuchi, Kurai."

Anyways Yuudai, yes, please proceed with this. If Snake tail proves to become too good after this fix, you can always change it to deal 30 damage over 3 turns still.

The main problem is his Budou, and it's about damn time it's getting nerfed.