Topic: Balance Update v4.0

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This topic was closed by Yuudai
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 6:10 PM
#31
Hellawyer, The Supreme Demon, Rank 1 of PLS-2

Contribution: 937 (843 + 94)
Joined: May 5, 2011
Nestec wrote:


(...)

^This, completely.

Jyouzu has basically been returned to his original form, without the piercing.

It's not so much the difference it makes to HIMSELF as a character. It's about how much more quickly an enemy can be spiked off now when you combine BS with other character offense.

Combine Bloodletter Stab with WoO and Hallucinogens, and that's a bonus 20 damage per turn FOR FREE. And that's only counting one person attacking the afflicted character.


As I said, he already used to increase damage and used to deal 5 damage for 1 turn, that's why I talked about the difference, 5 damage for 3 turns... the intention is to spike off a char fastly... will you need the 4 turns to kill him?...
That's why I say the difference is minimum, you will just make use of an average of 5 more total damage (considering he already used to deal 5... third time I say that). If you let the target bleed for the 4 turns, you are making it wrong...
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 6:12 PM
2 thumbs up
#32
elamento12, The Demonic Child of the Firehawk

Contribution: 1,860 (1,744 + 116)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Tori got a boost and 2 nerfs that make her even worse, there was no "rework".

Yuudai I am shamed of you on that balance.

Edit: You almost had me fooled Tori was going to be good.
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 6:28 PM
#33
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
Joined: January 31, 2011
Hellawyer wrote:


(...)

As I said, he already used to increase damage and used to deal 5 damage for 1 turn, that's why I talked about the difference, 5 damage for 3 turns... the intention is to spike off a char fastly... will you need the 4 turns to kill him?...
That's why I say the difference is minimum, you will just make use of an average of 5 more total damage (considering he already used to deal 5... third time I say that). If you let the target bleed for the 4 turns, you are making it wrong...


I don't understand what you just said...

But I'm assuming your point is this: Jyouzu isn't that much more powerful because he will only be dealing 5 more damage per turn?

Sure, you can look at it that way. But that logic was completely meaningless back when Jyouzu was OP. How do you explain that? Jyouzu's "mere 5 damage difference per turn" was taken away, and then he suddenly became 36% in the stats?

You're evaluating the DoT incorrectly. And the ladder results are proof of that.

EDIT:

Alex and Ela, I agree with you now, after using Tori myself.

Not being able to use Born of Fire during GSS is bull. Because of the way GSS works, it wears off after the user's turn. Leaving her WIDE open for damage, and unable to heal herself...

Basically, DoT completely owns Tori.
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 6:50 PM
#34
Hellawyer, The Supreme Demon, Rank 1 of PLS-2

Contribution: 937 (843 + 94)
Joined: May 5, 2011
Nestec wrote:


(...)

I don't understand what you just said...

But I'm assuming your point is this: Jyouzu isn't that much more powerful because he will only be dealing 5 more damage per turn?

Sure, you can look at it that way. But that logic was completely meaningless back when Jyouzu was OP. How do you explain that? Jyouzu's "mere 5 damage difference per turn" was taken away, and then he suddenly became 36% in the stats?

You're evaluating the DoT incorrectly. And the ladder results are proof of that.


Yes, you didn't understand what I was saying.
If you research, you will see that the 5 damage every turn was taken off from him much before his stats came to 36%... MUCH before. (By the way, he just reached 36% one time, with low numbers and I'm sure someone was responsible for it. Nowadays, he was around 42, 43% and... newers use him)
I'm saying that the purpose of bloodletter stab and other damage increasers is to kill a character fastly. In the current metagame, damage increasers are just justified if allows you to kill a char in around 2 turns... so you won't make use of all the wonderful 5 affliction damage for 4 turns.
So... or you kill a char in 2 turns - meaning that this boost will just make difference in the 5 damage of the second turn -... or you take more than 2 turns, making it won't unneffective.
My opinion.

People are just excited because of the nostalgia it brings.
PS: I'm not saying he's bad. In my opinion, he was a balanced char, it will make him slightly better now.
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 7:57 PM
#35
VertuHonagan, The Old Samurai of the Ancients

Contribution: 888 (803 + 85)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Nestec wrote:


(...)

^This, completely.

Jyouzu has basically been returned to his original form, without the piercing.

It's not so much the difference it makes to HIMSELF as a character. It's about how much more quickly an enemy can be spiked off now when you combine BS with other character offense.

Combine Bloodletter Stab with WoO and Hallucinogens, and that's a bonus 20 damage per turn FOR FREE. And that's only counting one person attacking the afflicted character.


You must be ignorant to cost. I don't see how 1 random and 1 blue is free, but apparently to you it is.

Edit: I told you the only change they made to Tori was to weaken her with her inability to heal and gain charges during GSS. They horribly nerfed her worse than she was before.
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 9:27 PM
#36
Shadawn, Demon of Death

Contribution: 281 (231 + 50)
Joined: January 15, 2011
We are waiting for a new Jouzou+Toge Meta.
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 10:51 PM
#37
oponent27, The Protective Swordsman of the Ancestors

Contribution: 113 (105 + 8)
Joined: January 15, 2011
I like the balances, my favorite was on Budou Nobuo because he can have 10 DR permantli and heals himself, so its a little hard to take him down first, about Kozan Jomon and Seishin Tori, I see them as underused characters, so that boost was great.

Hope for the release of Karasu, I can't buy him but I want to see what his skills does.

PS: I saw somewere in the forum a fan created Fumei region, I would like to see more regions and characters in WoN.
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 10:57 PM
1 thumbs up
#38
elamento12, The Demonic Child of the Firehawk

Contribution: 1,860 (1,744 + 116)
Joined: February 17, 2010
VertuHonagan wrote:


(...)

You must be ignorant to cost. I don't see how 1 random and 1 blue is free, but apparently to you it is.

Edit: I told you the only change they made to Tori was to weaken her with her inability to heal and gain charges during GSS. They horribly nerfed her worse than she was before.


Yea Tori was nerfed and how long will it take to realize it?
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 11:45 PM
#39
Shinjusuke, Swordsman of the Kage

Contribution: 24 (22 + 2)
Joined: January 23, 2011
Totally unrelated to your guy's debate, but how many times will they have to nerf Kurai before people suck it up and accept "Hey, MAYBE i should learn to use the damn character swap or get some prediction ability or possibly, just possibly, learn how to counter or deal with other teams".

Just saying. 2 posts into the update, after Kurai got another hotfix not a few weeks ago, and someone whines about Kurai.
  Posted on December 9, 2011 at 11:52 PM
#40
Forgotten-ninja, The Demonic Demon of the Demon's Flower

Contribution: 357 (320 + 37)
Joined: February 19, 2010
Shinjusuke wrote:

Totally unrelated to your guy's debate, but how many times will they have to nerf Kurai before people suck it up and accept "Hey, MAYBE i should learn to use the damn character swap or get some prediction ability or possibly, just possibly, learn how to counter or deal with other teams".

Just saying. 2 posts into the update, after Kurai got another hotfix not a few weeks ago, and someone whines about Kurai.


Someone saying a character needs a nerf =/= character actually needs a nerf.

Relax. Arguments that are just "character needs a nerf" tend to get laughed at.
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:11 AM
#41
Squirtle, The Blue Elite of the Warrior Tortoise

Contribution: 1,143 (1,051 + 92)
Joined: May 29, 2011
xXxMarcelxXx wrote:


(...)
They made her better, not worse.

I disagree

Tori can't heal big now :(

However, everything else was great!
Awesome update! ^^
Thankies low for da avatar :3

  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:18 AM
#42
Chas3_Th3_Dr3am, Dreamer of the Ancestors

Contribution: 2,354 (2,097 + 257)
Joined: January 14, 2011
Psh, I might jsut test Tori out. Like Squirtle said, Tori cant really heal that high anymore, but I didnt really use that skil much, so yeah.
Check out my Soundcloud!

Rainbows, sunshine. Everywhere we go.
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:11 AM
1 thumbs up
#43
Roach, The Masked Samurai of the Red Dawn

Contribution: 1,303 (1,108 + 195)
Joined: February 17, 2010
Shinjusuke wrote:

Totally unrelated to your guy's debate, but how many times will they have to nerf Kurai before people suck it up and accept "Hey, MAYBE i should learn to use the damn character swap or get some prediction ability or possibly, just possibly, learn how to counter or deal with other teams".

Just saying. 2 posts into the update, after Kurai got another hotfix not a few weeks ago, and someone whines about Kurai.

Suck what up? The fact that a character is too good? Sure, that's easy to do, but that doesn't mean he should be allowed to run rampant.

That's like going back to Hahen release and saying, "lol deal with it, everyone can use him."

Kurai has been OP since beta, and he's still OP now. He's a tanky damage dealer that infinitely shuts down one enemy. If your team has no stuns or anyway of removing it, you're pretty @#!*%$. Kurai alone is the reason I hate using a team that has no stuns.
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:14 AM
#44
jolik, The Diamond Blossom

Contribution: 515 (482 + 33)
Joined: January 27, 2011
NICE GOOD CHARS IDC ABOUT THE BOOST OR NERFS
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:41 AM
#45
Nestec, Dreamer

Contribution: 1,507 (1,327 + 180)
Joined: January 31, 2011
Hellawyer wrote:


(...)

Yes, you didn't understand what I was saying.
If you research, you will see that the 5 damage every turn was taken off from him much before his stats came to 36%... MUCH before. (By the way, he just reached 36% one time, with low numbers and I'm sure someone was responsible for it. Nowadays, he was around 42, 43% and... newers use him)
I'm saying that the purpose of bloodletter stab and other damage increasers is to kill a character fastly. In the current metagame, damage increasers are just justified if allows you to kill a char in around 2 turns... so you won't make use of all the wonderful 5 affliction damage for 4 turns.
So... or you kill a char in 2 turns - meaning that this boost will just make difference in the 5 damage of the second turn -... or you take more than 2 turns, making it won't unneffective.
My opinion.

People are just excited because of the nostalgia it brings.
PS: I'm not saying he's bad. In my opinion, he was a balanced char, it will make him slightly better now.


Well I think he's gonna prove to be OP again.